 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Denny G
Date: 2003-08-28 21:18
The keys on my clarinet are showing signs of tarnish. They are yellowing slightly. Can a polishing cloth be used? I hesitate to go to a repair shop, unless that is the best option. Suggestions?
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-08-28 21:35
Hi Denny,
I'd take that piece of junk back to the guy you bought it from and demand your money back. I'm still sad about selling that clarinet to you :-).
HRL
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-08-28 21:44
Denny, do "Search" and use "Key Replate" or "Never Dull" as a subject.
Been there, done that.
Bob A
Post Edited (2003-08-28 21:45)
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-08-28 22:27
Denny: Item one on your agenda should be to determine what your key surfaces actually are. If they're silver plated, they must be treated differently from those that are nickel plated or nickel silver (also known as German silver, it contains no silver).
Regards,
John
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-08-29 04:44
Lately I've been using Flitz metal polish (most hardward or auto supply stores) and a soft cloth. After squeezing it into the fabric I let it dry for a few minutes, then hand buff the keys. Finish hand buffing with a clean, soft, cloth (I like flannel) and marvel at the magic.
I need to add a word of caution. Do not over-do it, as any excess polish dust can gum up the key action if it gets into the pivots and screws. Light and easy does it. A LITTLE goes a very long way.
I sure hope Hank doesn't know my home address :(gulp-
( nameless... for obvious reasons
Post Edited (2003-08-29 04:50)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-08-29 07:04
KEEP ALL LIQUID, POWDER, CREAM POLISHES WELL AWAY FROM PIVOTS, unless you have the keys off, and can thoroughly clean out the pivot tubes before reassembly. Otherwise you are inviting excessive wear and/or rust.
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Author: moose6589
Date: 2003-08-29 07:37
Well, I was just wondering, my keys are extremely tarnished because the thing's decades old. If you polish it, wouldn't it make your keys slightly thinner and more delicate because you are essentially rubbing off the top layer of silver so that you can see the silver underneath, which is not tarnished? Does anyone see that as a problem? Or does the polish simply brighten it up and doesn't take off any material?
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-08-29 11:07
Hi Ron,
Denny and I are old friends and sit close to each other in community band. I sold him the clarinet, an E & S Master Model that I really loved. I just had too many clarinets and there are others I love more. It has a good home.
HRL
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-08-29 18:50
Thank you for clarifying that situation, Hank (whew...). I can rest easier now.
I added (edited) the little cautionary note to my post after it was up, Gordon. I should also mention that I have been using this polishing method for those quickie, play condition only, jobs that require key removal to check and oil pivots and screws, etc. A quick 'dusting' with Flitz (also, avoiding contact with pads) while the keys are off, removes major tarnish and brings up the shine quickly with no mechanical buffing required.
The reason I'm trying Flitz is that it claims to contain no abrasive and promises to remove no significant base surface material. Still, I try to remove all traces of it before re-assembly.
- ron b -
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-08-29 21:38
Nothing seems to work better than Flitz for tarnish removal.....in my experience.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2003-08-30 22:39
I find a very modest amount of key oil on a Q tip gets rid of tarnish.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-08-31 12:15
Flitz is often promoted as having no abrasive. I threw mine out because I found it so abrasive on silver.
I am not the only one to find it abrasive. ....
"......Flitz Metal Polish. This is a great polish for brass, copper and other metals. We do not recommend this for use with silver or gold because of the mild abrasive it contains."
...from http://shop.store.yahoo.com/albarwilmette/metcarclean.html
And others:
"Also keep in mind that Flitz is a mild abrasive, it will take the copper off of the steel if you let it dry out while polishing, or polish too much. "
...from http://www.zerobeat.net/drakelist/chasisclean.html
"Include with this fine leather strop is a tube of Flitz Metal Polish - which is a very light abrasive."
...from http://www.knifeart.com/leatherstrop.html
To me, any metal polish that has a abrasive that is effective for polishing brass, has an abrasive that is too harsh for a metal as soft as silver.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-08-31 21:02
I (for one) appreciate your comments, Gordon, and thank you for your ongoing and insightful observations.
I've only used Flitz on Bundy and Vito clarinet keys so far; I believe, to be sure, I'll confine its use to that in the future as well. The first time I tried the stuff I suspected it contained at least some very fine abrasive, regardless of the label saying it doesn't. I could almost *sense* it. I would never risk using it on a flute or [gold] wash - in fact, I don't like to use anything more than a very soft cloth on those surfaces - and I handle them with cotton gloves.
- ron b -
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Author: beejay
Date: 2003-08-31 21:31
Gordon,
To tell you the truth, I don't know. The container merely says Selmer Key Oil. It's what I've always used for, well, oiling keys. I'm talking about a hint of the stuff on a Q-tip or a cloth, followed by a polish with a jeweller's cloth.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-08-31 22:46
Is there a patent number [US -,---,--- , or other] on the containers, from which Doc and I can figure what it contains, and can give opinions on its use. I'll look as well. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-09-01 15:02
Prudent care must be exercised when attempting to remove tarnish from valuable objects. Gold, of course, requires no special care. Removal of silver sulfide(the black tarnish) from silver plated articles, of course, only exposes more silver for attack. Selmer key oil has a pleasant odor too.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-09-02 05:40
For a while, I have been using Brasso on brass keys (really old stuff), nickel silver, and nickel plate. Seems to work great. I prefer Wright's Silver Cream for any silver surfaces, until I find something better.
BUT... neither of these are used when keys are on an instrument. For that matter, I do not like to polish keys unless the pads are off for replacement.
Regards,
John
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Author: Eileen
Date: 2003-09-02 16:47
Buy a jewelry polishing cloth. They sell for about $5 at places like Linens and Things. The cloth contains a very mild polish which won't harm the finish of the keys. It takes a little rubbing but it works.
And while you're at the store ... Pick up some anti-tarnishing strips. They are also about $5 and are stocked next to the silver polish. Put a strip or two into your clarinet case and it will help prevent the keys from tarnishing again. They really do work.
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Author: Ray
Date: 2003-09-02 16:56
There's been a lot of great advice here.
I have been using Happich Simichrome polish, which works well. But I notice that if I buff a spatula or pad cup with a wheel and some Zam or Fabulustre and then go over it with Simichrome, some tiny cat whisker scratches appear. There must be some abrasive in it. This was on solid german silver stuff. Even Nevr-Dull, an impregnated cotton batting, leaves some tiny scratches on the german silver.
I don't think any of these products will scratch nickle plate, but I haven't tested that.
Question: what would you use on the gold wash in a metal bell? I don't know what a gold wash is. Is it a super thin plate of gold over silver? I sure don't want to remove it with an abrasive polish.
Thanks,
Ray
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Author: Clarinetpunk
Date: 2003-09-02 20:12
In our stores repair shop we use Hagerty Silversmith Spray Polish. We use it on almost all the silver horns that come throught the shop as well as on rental flutes, adn our display horns. From working back in the shop for a few months i learned that this spray works very well and doesnt cause any damage. You would spray a little bit on polishing cloth and clean the tarnished areas. Though be careful not to rub too hard because you can actually polish the silver away. We order the spray from Allied Supply, an instrument repair catalouge, but im sure there are other dealers ont he internet you can get it from as well.
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Author: supernova_khr
Date: 2003-09-02 20:46
I second the suggestion of using a jewelry polishing cloth. I rarely have to remove tarnish from the keys of my clarinet (which are silver-plated), but the cloth is easy and leaves no dust that can muck up springs and pins. It also works great on silver jewelry.
Kay
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Author: Avie
Date: 2003-09-02 20:59
I tryed Nevr-Dull and it took 90 percent of the tarnish off but the keys are slightly duller. Enough said about the name of the product. Consequently it looks better in one aspect and not quite as good in another. I didnt rug very hard or very long. The keys are also a bit more slipery which causes me to miss low E or C, etc. at times. There is also signs of a very slight abrasive appearance. Oh well, as they say, looks are only skin deep but I would hesitate to use another product in the future.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-09-03 04:59
This is how i see it:
If a product is opaque, be it liquid or solid or paste, then it almost certainly contains some powder. That powder is not there just for fun. It is abrasive.
Most powders are abrasive. Some are far more abrasive than others.
(If you put a TINY trace of the polish between your front teeth and rub the teeth together, you can feel the grittiness. Wipe the polish off after the experiment. If the polish is so harmful that this procedure would be high health risk, then the polish would not be marketed.)
Abrasive powders work like sand paper, usually very fine sand paper.
Nickel and chrome are hard metals - FAR harder than silver. The tarnish on these metals is probably harder still.
For most, if not all metals, the tarnish is harder than the metal itself. Therefore any abrasive that is hard enough to scratch away at the tarnish, will scratch away at the metal as well, so we are talking compromises here, between polishing, and removing metal.
But I am absolutely certain that ANY abrasive marketed to polish chrome or nickel, or stainless steel, or ANY other metal harder than silver - even brass - then it will contain an abrasive that gives silver a real hiding while it is giving the silver tarnish a hiding.
Silver is so soft that it needs a polish that is specially formulated for this metal only. A good silver polish, if it has an abrasive, will have an abrasive which is so mild that it has NO SHOW of polishing brass or any harder metal. Certainly not nickel or chrome! The harshness of the abrasive has been chosen as a compromise between removing silver tarnish and doing the least possible damage to the underlying silver.
So if your polish says it can be used for nickel or chrome, DO NOT USE IT ON SILVER!!!
It sure will remove the tarnish, and plenty silver as well. The resulting myriad of not-so-fine surface scratches will give a dull look to the surface, as has been described by several writers above.
Furthermore, as has been repeatedly mentioned by "The Doctor" in this forum, cheaper polishing products usually (always?) have poorly graded abrasive particles, such that the larger particles (which should not be there) do scratching damage to the surface. Repeated scratching damage to the surface inevitably wears right through the silver plating.
This is very common for the silver plating on the keys of top-make French clarinets, even with just the abrasiveness of human skin, within a year or three of manufacture. Shame on the manufacturer! This is an indication of how thin some plating is, and just how easy it is to damage silver plating by repeated abrasion.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-09-03 06:14
Gordon, your "shame on the manufacturer" should be squared. The cost of processing a plating operation, cleaning, ensuring proper storage and elimination of toxic wastes, and all that sort of rot is where the real costs are in silver plating. The cost of the silver is comparatively tiny.
I'm a bit disgusted that some suppliers charge $200 more per Clarinet for silver plated keys, when the actual silver laid on them is worth less than five dollars. A thicker plating could be applied for an added cost which might not be negligible, but surely is not awesome.
"Polishing Cloths" (such as Cadie brand) shound be used cautiously, as they carry jeweler's rouge, which is a fine dust. Vigorous rubbing will deposit some of the rouge on the keys, and some of it could find its way into improper locations if it isn't handled with great care. I don't use a polishing cloth unless the key is off the instrument, the screw hole is plugged (great use for round toothpicks), and the key is thoroughly wiped off after polishing. They are, of course, almost useless on any metal other than silver.
Regards,
John
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-09-03 15:02
Great wrap-up guys. The alloy used for the keys themselves is quite corrosion resistant and for many years was used without any plating at all. In fact it was the alloy of choice for kitchen sinks,dairy parts and similar applications. Some musicians, including brass players, resist the urge to obsess over spit and polish and concentrate on playing music.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-09-03 17:18
With all of the superb analysis and suggestions provided here, you guys have completely missed the simplest solution of all! It works great for me.....NEVER PLAY THE INSTRUMENT!.......just keep it locked in the case and even if it tarnishes, who cares, no one will ever see it. And that's why I am where I am today.
Davy S (Kenny G's forgotten cousin)
Totally unknown non-talent
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