 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Rachel
Date: 2003-08-27 02:09
I have been having problems with condensation collecting in my clarinet. At the moment it is so bad that I can't even get past the exposition of your average classical sonata without my sound going bad and making bubbling noises.
What could be causing this?
What can be done about it?
I have an audition coming up next month so I really need to have the best sound I can get.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2003-08-27 02:16
I like to warm up (both myself and my clarinet) with long tones. As soon as the clarinet is warmed, I swab it out before the condensation causes any problems. The problem doesn't manifest as badly after that.
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Author: hans
Date: 2003-08-27 13:47
If the problem is excessive saliva, it might help to avoid eating or drinking (except water) for an hour or so before playing.
Hans
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Author: Rachel
Date: 2003-08-28 01:06
It's not spit, it's condensation.
I am playing in a fairly warm environment at the moment.
I will try Fred's suggestion.
Thank you all for your help.
Do any of you know if there are any problems that can occur with the clarinet itself that can aggravate condensation?
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Author: Fred
Date: 2003-08-28 02:32
There's condensation that causes no problems and condensation that does. If you can keep it from getting to keys, it's not a problem. The problem can be as simple as the position in which you place the clarinet in your lap while counting rests. Remember gravity . . . and avoid putting your pads where the condensation will flow to when at rest.
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2003-08-28 02:34
Rachel, I had this same question over a year ago and wrote to this BB for suggestions. One gentleman suggested that I contact Muncy Winds for some special bore oil and his swab. (I wouldn't recommend the fuzzy swab that he sent, because the fuzz comes off inside the instrument and, in combination with the oil and moisture, eventually builds up and blocks your tone holes.)
The use of the oil helped quite a bit. I no longer use just his oil, but now will use a small amount of extra virgin olive oil on the upper joint and the barrel when I start having bubbling problems. This allows the moisture to continue on its way without taking a side trip into your tone holes. (I've developed the technique of putting the oil onto an old Buffet swab, rubbing it in, and then running the swab through the upper joint a few times. This avoids getting too much oil inside.) Now I only need to use the cigarette papers the odd time, and of course swab from time to time while playing.
Obviously you have to be careful to protect your pads, placing cigarette papers under each pad BEFORE oiling to absorb any excess oil, leaving the instrument overnight, then swabbing it out with a dry swab before removing the papers. For some reason I've had to do this about once each two or three months. Of course I've been using the instrument quite a bit each day.
I did this little treatment before my exam two weeks ago, and voila! no bubbles this time even though I forgot to take my swab into the examination room. It's worked well for over a year now since I learned what the problem was.
So, be sure your instrument is slightly oiled inside, swab often while playing, and keep the absorbent papers alongside just in case.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-08-28 05:56
I would expect that olive oil to go rancid, and semi-solidify to a mess in a few months or years.
Far better to use the stabilized bore oil for Doctor's Products.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-08-28 13:12
Things do not always go as we expect them to. I expect that the amount of olive oil left on the wood is extremely thin. Notice also that she uses extra virgin grade......and maybe she puts vitamin E in it! Certainly the use of bore oil per se is one way to combat it......even a silicone based oil might work and Doc's does for sure. Think about your windows in the wintertime....warm air hits something cold and condenses. Warming up and keeping the entire horn warm prior to blowing into it is another measure.
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2003-08-28 15:50
A "trick" I picked up on this board sometime in the past, is to run a piece of thread (I use dental floss) down the bottom of the instrument from the barrel to the horn. This gives the condensation a specific drainage path to follow, resulting in less likelihood of it finding its way to the problem pads.
It seems to work. After a while, the isertion of the thread becomes second nature when assembling the clarinet.
John
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2003-08-28 21:42
I have had several customers that have had good success with using a fine, long handled, artist's paint brush and painting a thin line with a quality bore oil (my choice is a plant derived oil mixture) from the register key vent to the bottom of the horn (along the line of the register key and thumb rest). If there are keys (tone holes ) which are especially prone to condensation accumulation I will paint around them with a little line connected to the longer lengthwise line previously painted. This procedure seems to channel the water away and down the center bottom of the bore by gravity. When resting always lay the horn across your lap with the open tone holes up or put it on a peg rest. Several replies indicate that this has worked. Warming the instrument up is a good practice too.
The Doctor
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-08-29 07:09
I have also heard of doing almost the opposite:
Paint the problem areas with surfactant, say dilute detergent. This makes the moisture spread over the surface instead of forming drops and running into tone holes.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-08-29 11:40
I had the pleasure of hearing two terrific players this past Summer, on standard wooden instruments, in very humid conditions.
Each took out and assembled their horns a solid hour prior to playing for acclimation. If you travel in an air conditioned car, this is pretty much long enough to equalize temperatures, and get exposure to the ambient humidity levels.
Neither swabbed during their sets, but they did tip the horn up to 'puff' at the upper trill keys while playing.
It was a necessary distraction.
Any special ointments or incantations? Nope.
It's a design compromise in the instrument, with a simple solution.
Just pucker up and whistle!
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Author: Rachel
Date: 2003-08-30 10:00
The condensation is not really causing many problems under my keys, it is mainly collecting in my mouthpiece and barrel and affecting the tone quality.
Thanks for all your suggestions, I haven't tried them yet, but I will.
I am well aware of the fact that you have to blow condensation out from under the keys. That doesn't get rid of all the other moisture in the instrument. But thanks anyway
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-08-30 11:55
I had the problem with one particular instrument crossing two distinct climactic zones. I was unable to fix the problem completely but I tried opening the case and leaving the instrument to acclimatise, then assembling and leaving for it to acclimatise further helped but did not fix the problem completely. Oiling the bore did not seem to have an effect either way in this case. Another thing that helped was to swab the bore with a genuine, leather that is, chamois pull through. No other instrument suffered the same malady under the same circumstances. I have a bassoon crook that holds water for no apparent reason, a Fox CVC 2. I have cleaned it in every conceivable way including ultrasonic and acid bathing, it still just clogs up with condensation no matter what. I have matching CVC's 1 and 3 and neither have the problem. I would speculate that the wood in your particular instrument does not like the climate you are in. Another suggestion is to check the tenon fittings, they may be catching water.
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Author: fmadison
Date: 2003-08-31 09:53
Hi,
I happen to live in Miami Florida home of humidity central all year round.
Condensation is a huge problem down here for Clarinet players or anyone else for that matter.
I like to tell you my story dealing with the problem.
1. Step in front of a mirror and fog the mirror with your breath. This type of breath is present during unsupported blowing that is slow and warm and causes many problems.
This is very present when trying to play very ( ppp ) too.
2. I finally learned to play the Clarinet with the correct amount of support. This could be illustrated in front of a mirror by blowing a very narrow stream of air under high pressure that does not fog the mirror but is a very cool air stream.
So hot slow air is bad and cool air good.
With hot slow air I would get water in my C- Sharp key and it would gurgle like crazy. I would notice large droplets forming inside the upper joint only after 10 minutes of constant playing.
Now with fast cool air blowing after 10 minutes of constant playing I would see tiny droplets like morning dew forming in the upper joint and my gurgling C- Sharp problems went away.
Now there is another thing to consider. As more water forms in the upper joint the worst your tone gets.
Try this for a test.
1. Play for 10 minutes and look to see condensation formed in the upper joint.
2. Play a Low C major scale and listen to the tone quality.
3. Now Swab the upper joint.
4. Next using a dust off air spray can spray bursts of air into all the upper joint holes including the octave vent tube.
5. Now play a C Major scale and listen to the tone quality.
You can also do this.
After step 5 you can carefully blow some dust off bursts of air into the tip of the mouthpiece. This will blow the water that is lying on the reed inside the mouthpiece.
Be very careful not to do it too close to the tip try about 3 inches away to avoid chipping the reed. The air pressure will make your Clarinet mouthpiece to squeak a note. Try about 3 good bursts.
Now play a C Major scale and listen to your tone.
For practical application you would use your own blowing by blowing bursts of air into the tone holes. Also swab during long rests in the music you are playing. Blowing out the tip can not be done without making noise.
But try to keep an eye out for too much moisture it robs you of your good sound.
Also for those of you who are lucky and live in very dry climates.... well enough said.
-Frank
It's the wood that makes it good!
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