 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2003-08-18 14:58
I just read the post about choosing a Leblanc Concerto over an Opus. I was surprised by the consensus that the Leblanc throat tones are superior to the Buffet's. If there is such a clear superiority between the sound quality of the Leblancs, then why does so many of the players I know use Buffets?
Just curious,
Ron Jr.
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-08-18 15:09
Maybe because everyone has their own preference........
Bradley
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Author: Fred
Date: 2003-08-18 15:54
and because that's one aspect of the whole picture to be considered.
and because students often follow their teacher's recommendations. Because Buffets are widespread among professionals and teachers, it is not unexpected that they would influence their students (directly or indirectly) toward Buffets. Note: this is not a criticism of the influence - merely an observation of human nature.
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Author: Bob Schwab
Date: 2003-08-19 03:09
I live in Buffalo, about an hour's drive from The Eastman School of Music, and the music store I go to does a fair amount of business with a number of its students. During a discussion I had with the shop owner about the various brands of clarinets he carried he commented that many of Eastman's students are "shamed" into switching to Buffets. In his experience, students don't necessarily switch because they feel Buffets are superior, but because there's this stigma that if you don't play Buffets you're going against the grain.
Bob Schwab
Buffalo, NY motto: The biggest people with the biggest ideas can be shot down by the smallest people with the smallest minds.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-08-19 12:24
ouch...
Buffalo is still a terrific city, thank you Tom Galissano.
Although chickens worldwide swear at mention of your town.
When did power come back on for you folks?
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2003-08-19 12:29
Which post is it about choosing a Concerto over the Opus? Is it mine? Because, allow me to clarify.
I chose Concerto beacuse this particular Concerto has much better throat notes than this particular Opus. There are probably hundreds of Opus' with better throat notes than the Concerto that I liked! They are acoustically identical in design, so one isn't actually 'better' or different.
Personally, I feel LeBlanc instruments have better throat notes than Buffet. They work better for me.
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2003-08-19 12:30
Which post is it about choosing a Concerto over the Opus? Is it mine? Because, allow me to clarify.
I chose Concerto beacuse this particular Concerto has much better throat notes than this particular Opus. There are probably hundreds of Opus' with better throat notes than the Concerto that I liked! They are acoustically identical in design, so one isn't actually 'better' or different.
Personally, I feel LeBlanc instruments have better throat notes than Buffet. They work better for me.
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Author: caravaggio79
Date: 2003-08-19 13:47
Bob Schwab-
It would be really interesting to know who you are doing business with in Buffalo that is passing around such blatantly wrong information about the Buffet situation at Eastman. I graduated from Eastman a couple of years ago, and was one of about a half dozen clarinet players that happily played on LeBlancs. At no time ever did we feel pressures or "shamed" in to switching to Buffets. In fact, it was not out of the ordinary for a LeBlanc player to win an ensemble audition. The local business man might have been creating this line in order to sell more Buffets. Who knows?
I just felt like I needed to clear the Eastman name. Thanks
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-08-19 13:50
My 1930's-vintage Prueffer has better throat tones than your Leblancs or your Buffets, nanny-nanny boo-boo!
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-08-19 14:15
Who says clarinet players are not opinionated. By the way "Buffalo Wings" were invented in New York City...Robert Ripley. Personally I think throat tones are largely affected by the reed,lig,mp,bbl combo. ....and other factors not exclusive to the brand of clarinet.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-08-19 14:23
> By the way "Buffalo Wings" were invented in New York City
Hmmm ... the Anchor Bar is still alive and well in Buffalo and would disagree with you vehemently - and they've got history (and research into the origins) on their side. Next thing you know someone will be claiming that beef on weck was really from somewhere else ...
But, we digress.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-08-19 14:33
Mark, may I suggest you start a BB for snack/bar foods --- personally I'd MUCH rather discuss chicken wings (mild to scorching-hot) than throat tones.....then I can tell my story about the #11 wings at Frankie's in Port Canaveral, Florida.........
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-08-19 14:44
David Spiegelthal wrote:
> Mark, may I suggest you start a BB for snack/bar foods ---
I miss my Moxie ...
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Author: William
Date: 2003-08-19 14:59
Hmmm....I switch back and forth between playing sets of LeBlanc Concertos (early 90s) and Buffet R13s (mid 60s) and have noticed little difference in the sound consistancy or tuning of the throat tones. I always vent the A and Bb the same way on both sets (LH 2-3, little finger E) and this seems to even the scale and improve the tuning--which, BTW is not bad on my clarinets. And I use the same reed/mpc set up on both sets. Specifically, the Bb on my Concerto A tends to be a bit flatter than I would like, so I often substitute the side Bb alternative which is more "in". My main reason for the frequent switchs is simply a need for that new or "fresh" sound, not just the "same-old, same-old", practice after rehersal after performance, ad nauseum........ Buffets do sound different that Leblancs and I like diversity of sound as well as community. For some orchestral gigs, I have even used my Buffet Bb with my Concerto A, but generally tend to use complete sets B or L for consistancy of key work. My LeBlancs do play more easily "in tune" while the Buffets need a bit more aural attenton, but "in the final analysis", it is the clarinetist that plays out of tune, not necessarily the clarinets.
"Bottom line", the audiencies could care less what brand of clarinet I am playing on as long as I play the correct notes and rhythms.....and play them in tune with acceptable tone quality (which I can do on both my LeBlancs and Buffets) Hope this helps clarify things without throwing too much more "fuel on the fire."
(Currently playing my LeBlanc Concerto while giving my Buffets a rest)
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Author: Bob Schwab
Date: 2003-08-19 16:18
Mark
I'm impressed! Your comments about the Anchor Bar and Beef on Weck were right on. Is there anything you don't know something about?
Concerning my comments about the discussion I had with a local store owner I suppose it warrants some explanation. I bought a new Yamaha clarinet from him and the bell ring was getting loose. He gave me a new bell and asked if there were any other problems I had concerning that instrument. I had always been bothered by a fuzziness in my open G so we assembled the instrument and he play tested it. He noticed that the pad under the throat A key was a bit close to the body of the clarinet so he adjusted it. It played much cleaner after that simple little tweak. One thing I noticed immediately was how full his sound was on my instrument as compared to what it sounded like when I played it (I had been playing for about a year at that time and that was last October). He commented that his sound was probably due to him having played for over fifty years (that made me feel better). So that opened up a discussion over the quality of clarinets, mouthpiece and reed selection, blah blah blah. As the conversation evolved he showed me a Yamaha saxophone an Eastman student traded in earlier that week to buy a Selmer because Selmers were the saxophone of choice for Eastman students. This development also resulted in the offending comment I made earlier in this post.
His comments were never in the context of a sales pitch as I had already owned the clarinet for several months at that time. His three main clarinet lines are Buffet, Selmer, and Yamaha and he was actually trying to make the point that he felt Yamaha was every bit a quality instrument as Buffet but that there was a kind of snob appeal (my paraphrase) to playing Buffets if you wanted to be taken seriously as a clarinet player. For what its worth, he plays an R13 when he does his gigs.
I can't speak for the appropriateness of his comments. Many recommended his store to me and after having done business with him I wouldn't hesitate to recommend his business to others. I suppose that since he's been in business for several decades maybe what he told me was more indicative of how things were at Eastman in the not so recent past, as opposed to "a couple of years ago." But I don't believe he was being dishonest, reckless, or untruthful. He wasn't trying to slander Buffet or Eastman. And you know, if that's his experience as a shop owner I can't refute that. My gut feeling is that there was truth to what he said.
I hope you can appreciate that in the light of this discussion I'd rather not provide the name of the store or the store owner. He really is a good guy and I'd hate to see him get a bad reputation based on something he said to me during the course of a private discussion we were having.
Sorry for the diatribe.
Bob Schwab
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-08-19 16:59
Bob Schwab wrote:
> Mark
>
> I'm impressed! Your comments about the Anchor Bar and Beef on
> Weck were right on.
Hey - I'm a Williamsville South HS grad  What'd you expect?
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Author: LeWhite
Date: 2003-08-19 23:42
I think in the end, everyone plays differently, has different setup, and a very different concept of how their instruments should sound and feel. Also, people buying new instruments at different stages of their clarinet life have different needs. I couldn't tell a complete beginner how much better a Buffet Elite is than his/her E11, because if they tried both, they might not notice the difference at all! A colleague of mine originally bought his Buffet because it had a nice case...
So, for where I am in my 'clarinet-playing life', I'm choosing LeBlanc. I can't say it would suit a professional, or a beginning student, because they have different needs than me.
What suits you is just that - what suits YOU.
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-08-20 00:32
Since when does an Elite out-perform a good E11? LOL
Bradley
Sorry my posts have not had any real value lately, but I just had to add that since that was the first time I heard someone put the Elite over anything.
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Author: 68fordfalcon
Date: 2003-08-20 00:32
I prefer Schwabl's in West Seneca for beef on weck. I also like Buffets, but have tried some Leblancs that I like too. I hope people play on the instruments that work well for them, and if their playing is good, it says much more than the brand on which they play. Also, thank you to DTE Energy for providing my 'hood in Downtown Detroit with blackouts 2003B, and C. The latest one was today.
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Author: Douglas
Date: 2003-08-20 13:53
What in the world is "weck". (Sorry, I'm from the mid-west.)
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-08-20 14:18
Douglas wrote:
> What in the world is "weck". (Sorry, I'm from the mid-west.)
Way, way OT ... Kummelweck. Wonderful roll w/ rock salt on top. Generally only available around Buffalo, NY.
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Author: Bob Schwab
Date: 2003-08-20 16:06
Mark
You left out a key ingredient. The years away from Western New York--beautiful country by the way--must have begun to take their toll.
A Kimmelweck roll is loaded with rock salt, kind of like what you find on salt covered bagels, and caraway seeds. A Beef on Weck is a roastbeef sandwich on a Kimmelweck roll, often served with a healthy dose of freshly ground horseradish.
SB. I didn't lose electricity but many did. I have a friend who owns a farm in Boston Hills that overlooks the whole Buffalo area. It was interesting to see the various patches of darkness and light representing neighborhoods that had electricity and neighborhoods that didn't.
68 fordfalcon. I've never been to Schwabl's in West Seneca but know where it is (I'm relatively new to the area). Many have recommended it to me. But the top place for Beef on Weck in the Niagara Frontier is Charlie the Butcher's. Mark. That name has to sound familiar. They're in the Williamsville area.
And, not that this has anything to do with clarinet playing at all, after almost nine months of unemployment (Happy Thanksgiving, we're laying you off) and having my house in Florida foreclosed on, I finally landed a job yesterday. Apparently, during tough economic times tech writers are considered more a luxury and are quick to get sent to the curb when an organization needs to find money.
So, no longer do I need to hear the taunting chants of neighborhood children outside my bedroom window at 2:00 AM singing "Bob Schwab get a job." No longer do I have to... never mind.
Sorry this post digressed but I wanted to tie up a few loose ends.
Bob Schwab
Is it my imagination or do Buffalo Wings taste like chicken?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-08-20 17:44
Bob, congratulations on your new job --- I'm (starting) to feel a bit of your pain, having been informed more than a month ago that my current employment is about to end and so far I'm coming up empty-handed in landing a new one --- tough market out there! But like all good cats we must land on our feet somehow....And it's not your imagination, Buffalo Wings (just like everything else) DO taste like chicken......
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Author: Neil
Date: 2003-08-21 03:05
Last time I was up in New England, about 3 yrs ago, they still had Moxie. Still tastes like furniture polish.
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