 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: lllebret
Date: 2003-08-12 16:51
The subject of clarinet blow out has been previously discussed here and there seems to be a general consensus that calcium build-up in the tone holes and the undercutting may be responsible for this phenomenon. Is it possible to clean out this build-up yourself, and, if so, how would one go about it?
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-08-12 17:44
If you undertake the cleaning of your instrument, do so carefully (no sharp stuff, like X-acto knife blades, okay?)... and with softer materials.
I use a cotton swab (Q-tip) with a little dilute Acetone (nail polish remover) to clean the tone holes large enough for a swab.
In the metal Vent tubes, I use a 0000 (4-aught) steel wool with the same solvent. If the working pros at repair chime in, and differ, I would follow their advice closely.
If you start with cotton swabs, you'll get most of the deposit (if there is any) with minimal risk to the wood.
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2003-08-12 21:41
I use a bore brush I bought from Ferree's Tools. It is stiff enough to scrub the bore walls and under-cut areas, yet it will not scratch the bore. It also helps to remove that reddish-brown deposit, especially in the upper joint.
Here is a tip; I learned this by accident. After my daughter finished playing one of her older horns, and while it was still warm and damp, I ran the bore brush through it then one of those giant pipe cleaner type swabs to wipe the stuff out. You should have seen it, years of deposits all over the place. With the brushing action I had to clean debris from the pads. The bore shines so much you would never know it was from 1906. It seems that plain old hot breath and moisture loosens this stuff up, it's just that a swab is too soft to dislodge it.
Best Regards
Mark
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2003-08-12 22:26
(Disclaimer, I sell a wood cleaner and tone hole brushes) Cleaning tone holes is a good idea. Acetone will not dissolve calcium deposits if that is what you have - Chemistry 101. More than likely it is a complex matrix of organic material (dust, oil from the wood, swab lint) and possibly some chemical deposits of various origin. If there is any roughness at all the cotton "Q" tip may leave behind tiny fibers itself. I use a nylon bristled mascara brush which just happens to be the right size and the proper stiffness. Of course use a clean one and not your own, or one pilfered from the wife or girlfriend that is used.
The Doctor
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-08-12 23:52
G'head Doc H, you can admit that it's really your brush...
I'm merely suggesting the least expensive, least likely to damage item that may be readily at hand.
What are the odds that it is actually a calcium (or salt) deposit, anyway?
Most of what I get out of the student horns I clean is at the TOP of the tonehole chimneys, anyway.
I like pipe cleaners, too... they're just harder to find.
Doubled over, they really do a nice scrub-up.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-08-12 23:57
I have encountered heavy buildups - no, that should be reworded, 'encrustations' - that a bristle brush will not touch. I suppose every clarinet is different in what it has been exposed to an d for how long.
Sometimes I have resorted to very careful scraping with a variety of tools, or on occasions a brass gun brush.
Obviously, because these weapons are both harder than timber, great care is needed to minimise effects to the timber itself. And attending to the undercutting itself is close to impossible down narrow tone holes. Sure brushes will do something when the build-up is slight, but not when there it is encrusted.
Very gentle use of a (perhaps blunt, or positively raked) undercutting tool, perfectly-matched in profile, would work nicely, but the operative word is 'perfectly-matched'. Each manufacturer would have his own. And the operation would be very time consuming.
I was hoping The Doctor could suggest a chemical approach that would not harm the timber. "Mouthpiece cleaner"?
In the mean time, for the encrusted cases, it seems to be a choice of which removal method damages the timber least.
BTW a slightly rough surface in tone holes MAY be advantagious in spreading moisture, frather than allowing it to bead and roll to pads.
Thanks for the mascara brush tip.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2003-08-13 00:34
(Disclaimer - I sell a wood cleaner and tone hole brushes) Actually if you get the right kind of mascara brush it has a tapered tip area and a tapered heel region - the middle of the brush is the application area - with a flexible plastic handle, it can be bent and swiveled such that the tip will actually form a slight hook and clean most of the not too encrusted undercut areas. You see I have made a quite a study of mascara brushes - all mascara brushes are not created equal. The stiffness of the brush bristles is important too. Acetone would not be my choice of cleaning agent since it is a potent oil solvent it will leech oil out of the tonehole area - which IMHO you do not want to do because this is an area very prone to developing cracks. Acetone is also a bad actor for human inhalation dangers. Again, I doubt that it is a calcium encrustation because the moisture blown into the bore is 100% water vapor from your lungs unless you are prone to develop large saliva discharges into the bore. More than likely, although I must admit that I have not done a thorough chemical analysis on tone hole encrustations to determine the content, it is more a dusty, swab lint, oily, hardened organic based deposit. The proprietary ingredients in some wood cleaners will dissolve this latter type of deposit without removing needed oil from the wood. For heavily encrusted areas I would seek the help of a great technician who was adept in using the right kind of scraping tools.
The Doctor
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Author: Ray
Date: 2003-08-13 02:24
See if this makes your stomach flip:
In order to clean up an absolutely filthy clarinet, inside and out, I removed all the keys. Then I scrubbed it inside and out with Ferree's bore brush and a dishwashing detergent solution. I further whaled away at the tone holes with mouthpiece brushes and a selection of brushes made for cleaning aquarium tubing.
The brown stuff that I rinsed out was a sight to see. Ugh.
After a thorough drying, I oiled it repeatedly until it wouldn't take any more.
It looks great and plays beautifully now.
Ray
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Author: n_hanson12
Date: 2003-08-13 02:46
I bought a new (used) clarinet a while back and the first time I really looked at the filth closely was also a sight to see. I took all the key off and used a Q-tip and water to do what I could...
~Nicki
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Author: moose6589
Date: 2003-08-13 06:02
Just wondering, I have no idea how to take off or put the keys back on, so I really can't clean the clarinet. Would it be a good idea to just bring the clarinet to a local technician and tell him to clean it? Also, I just purchased the Doc's wood cleaner, so perhaps I could tell the tech to use that.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2003-08-13 11:39
(Disclaimer - I sell a wood cleaner) There is no free lunch. I would not use straight diswashing detergent to clean the wood. Use a product that is made for woodwind wood cleaning and restoration. I also would not go about disassembling my horn in order to clean it unless I had the technical skill to reassemble it and make all the proper adjustments and regulation of the horn after assembly. You might get a clean clarinet but one that was very much out of adjustment and regulation after assembly. Leave this part to the expert technicians. There are ways to save some money in the care and maintenance of your instrument but you may end up paying much more than the cost to have a good technical person work on your horn if you do it yourself.
The Doctor
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2003-08-13 11:57
Doctor (and all the other techs out there):
How can taking keys off & putting them back on change the regulation & adjustment of a clarinet? Everything is between fixed points. Screw out, screw back in.
MOO,
Matt
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-08-13 13:04
Duh, Matt, you must be puttin us on. Personally I maintain that the encrusted crud is the same stuff the dentist scrapes off your teeth and thus prevention is the better part of the cure. Brush your teeth before playing.
Certainly dust and other debris can be present and one of the "other" forms of crud is from tobacco users. I don't know if this is what causes the Red Crud or not but suspect that some of it's color is from the dye used by the manufacturers.(Ever see red crud in a plastic horn?) The majority of clarinet players cannot even use a shoe horn properly and should not attempt work on a clarinet that is best left to an experienced technician. The subject of this posting falls into that category.
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2003-08-14 03:00
The red crud does not come from the dye /stain used on the wood. I have cleaned my share from tone holes on metal clarinets.
As far as taking a horn apart, cleaning the tone holes, reassembling it and having it play as it did before it was taken apart, is possible.
So why does it never happen that way?
Well, during disassembly /reassembly an inexperienced person gets frustrated when things don't come apart or go back together easily. He uses a little excessive force here and there and as a result throws the whole horn out of adjustment. Your best bet is to have someone else do it.
Regards
Mark
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-08-14 11:36
Matt wrote:
"How can taking keys off & putting them back on change the regulation & adjustment of a clarinet? Everything is between fixed points. Screw out, screw back in."
In theory this should happen.
In practise, in addition to what has already been said:
1. While disassembled, loose corks, silencing skins, etc are far more likely to fall off.
2. There are now at least four different concepts of pivot screws (not rods). The cylindrical ones are often not screwed up tight, so they wobble. When they are subsequently screwed up tight the adjustment changes. also, the careless or inexperienced operator can easily bend the end of one of these screws during removal of the key.
The tapered screws with a head that is meant to screw in tight, are often NOT screwed in tight, so when they subsequently are screwed in tight, the adjustment has changed.
The other types, which rely on being screwed in just the right amount, also often have large 'play' between the screw and the key, or even wobble in their posts. When they are subsequently securely installed and accurately adjusted, the linkage adjustments, and sometimes even the pad alignment with the tone hole, have been altered.
We are talking of small 'irregularities' here, but a good, reliable adjustment of both linkages and pad alignment of tone holes is done to an accuracy of .01 to .02 mm, ie less than 1 thousandth of an inch. The thickness of a typical 'feeler' for detecting leaks is about 0.02 mm, but it is used to detect relative 'drag' on the feeler, which detected to an accuracy of far less than the thickness of the feeler. If the feeler slides out FREELY from under a pd, then this constitutes a MAJOR leak. So the integrity of pivot security is vital for precision adjustment.
Of course many players have probably never experienced an instrument that is well adjusted. Many is the time when a well-established teacher starts sending me their student's plastic instruments. Later, they send me their own instrument when when they discover that their students' instruments play a LOT better than their own professional instrument.
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