 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SnazzyJazzy
Date: 2003-08-10 02:21
how do u get a really good sounding vibrato and how fast should it be (particularly for jazz)???
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-08-10 02:36
After hearing some people talk about vibrato, I don't think they would even agree ANY vibrato sounds GOOD. Anyway, there are many types of vibrato. I've heard of "throat" vibrato and then diaphram vibrato. Obviously using the various body part to produce the vibration in the sound. This is all from talking to my best friend , a flautist and she also mentioned "nervous" vibrato and the regular slow kind. I'm not sure but I think she said James Galway had moreo f a regular kind while Jean Pierre Rampal (she likes Galway, but Rampal rules....) uses more of a "nervous" kind. I know I am probably not of much hellp, but I tried since no-one else had posted when I opened it.
Bradley
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Author: ned
Date: 2003-08-10 03:36
This is a vexed question on the BB as the previous post suggests.
My argument to those clarinet players who are against is quite simply - if string sections in orchestras (of any size) employ considerable vibrato, why is it that reed and brass in similar settings, do not use it? Try and imagine your favourite violin solo (for example) played without vibrato and consider how dead and lifeless it would really be.
Many jazz players DO use it and there a number of threads on this BB you can search.
I have heard of throat and daiphram vibrato, but I don't think it would work for me - did/do any of the famous jazz players generate vibrato this way?
For my part, I create vibrato via the lips and mouthpiece/reed, I think this may go against classical technique possibly, however I'm self taught, with the aid of a large record collection and I really just attempted to copy those that I liked - it could work for you.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2003-08-10 05:20
John, I think that you are on target. One great difficulty with vibrato on the classical side is that so many players seem to insist on imitating less-than-successful examples. At the risk of tomatos flying my way, I would venture that Kell and Stoltzman are examples that I would not want to imitate.
I would consider Gervase De Peyer to be the most tasteful user of vibrato that I have seen on the classical side. His student, Thomas Piercy, is also quite apt in this area. He participates on this BB and may be willing to share some insights. There is also a gentleman here in Richmond (also an excellent singer) who does very well with it, and advocates diaphragm vibrato.
Apart from these individuals, I generally hear vibrato being used far more successfully by jazz players, and suspect that the best practicitioners are using lip vibrato.
Allen Cole
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-08-10 05:59
I suggest that vibrato on a Clarinet is one of those things that can be learned but can't be taught, except by example.
The big reason for this is that you must make a decision as to whether you intend to use vibrato to sound good to yourself or to your audience. And if you want to reach the biggest vibrato-loving audience, you might want to emulate that Clarinet player who sold more records than any other for the last fifty years: Mister Acker Bilk. Go listen again to "Stranger on the Shore" and see how you like that.
On the other hand, Benny Goodman used vibrato sparingly sometimes, and not at all on many selections. When he used it, his vibrato in itself was a variable artistic expression, hardly just something thrown in to make a sound different from that of other players.
If you insist on using vibrato for whatever reason, you should experiment with different methods of varying the airflow through the instrument: embouchure changes, throat constrictions, abs and/or diaphragm wiggles, or whatever works best for you. Then practice. Lots. The speed depends on what sounds best. Define "best" yourself; if you wish, listen to other players who use vibrato to get some ideas. Done well, vibrato may enhance some performances. Done poorly, it absolutely stinks. MOO.
Regards,
John
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-08-10 12:02
Hi,
As a sax player origianlly and a clarinet player later, I use a lip vibrato on sax and virtually none on clarinet. My vibrato on sax is quite different when I am playing a classical piece on alto compared to playing a jazz gig on tenor for ballads. I also use a much different vibrato when playing lead alto in a big band.
I have tried a little vibrato on certain classical clarinet pieces just to warm the tone a little and it is quite pleasant. But on an audition of any sort on clarinet, I keep it very traditional.
There is a nice CD by Jerome Summers of Western Ontario University that is getting a little play on CBC. He uses a very nice little bit of vibrato to great effect in some cuts, particularily the Victorian Kitchen Garden Suite.
HRL
PS On bassoon and oboe, I use a lip vibrato but on flute, diagphram vibrato seems to be the best.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-08-10 12:56
Take care not to lower your jaw too much, as your grip on the reed will shift (pitch control suffers, then).
My favorite vibrato comes from the air support, rather than the jaw.
Now if you want a nice portamento or gliss... that's a jaw cracker!
*******
As to whether or not the vibrato sounds good to other people;
who cares? It's about making music, not cutting cookies... do it your way.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-08-10 14:17
Vibrato can certainly add or detract to any sound. Walter Boeykens and George Peterson employ a very nice singing vibrato without the pitch deviation associated with this technique....on the flip side Kell is a fantastic player with a vibrato very hard to imitate.
As a technique it can be very effective in pieces like the Gershwin Rhapsody in Blue etc. There are numerous pieces where vibrato is expressly asked for...players who insist on no vibrato have a risk of putting themselves out of work in the very lucrative jazz/musical pop field.
David Dow
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2003-08-10 17:36
I personally like clarinet vibrato, and I think that in solo music, vibrato is a very valuable tool. I would say that in ensemble settings, vibrato is not as important (and can even create problems).
As far as technique goes... I started as a flautist, and I first learned flute vibrato with the diaphragm, then switched to a more natural air vibrato (the rational was that first using your diaphragm would teach you to "control" in, then you could switch to air). Comparing clarinet to flute vibrato isn't exactly accurate in my opinion however, because flute vibrato tends to mirror the vibrato-style of an opera singer (or what I affectionately call, machine-gun vibrato). Clarinet vibrato (which I do sparingly with AIR) is a much more natural effect, mirroring the natural vibrato a voice might use during lyrical passages. As far as really wide, jazzy vibrato, I haven't the first clue. I don't really play jazz, and I've messed around and can imitate that sound, but I'm certainly in no position to tell others how to do it! = )
Don - theclarinetist@yahoo.com
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Author: tww
Date: 2003-08-10 22:24
I find that vibrato works well in most non-legit clarinet music (such as jazz and dance music.)
I find that a good way to do this is to use the lip/jaw to vary the pitch roughly sinusoidally at about 5 hz (depending on style and tempo.) Slow practice helps. Too large an amplitude is tasteless and too small an amplitude fails to enhance the tone.
The diaphragmatic method works well on flute and double reeds, but I find that on clarinet it only serves to vary the intensity, not the pitch. I personally don't find that to be a desirable thing in clarinet playing.
- tww
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-08-10 22:27
There is only one word o describe the way vibrato should be used. Tastefully!
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2003-08-10 22:37
I wasn't aware that vibrato was supposed to alter the pitch (at least not well done vibrato anyway)....
DH - theclarinetist@yahoo.com
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Author: Tom Piercy
Date: 2003-08-11 11:41
As for the original questions of "how to get a good sounding vibrato" and "how fast should it be" --
The "how to" is tricky to answer in words on a BB. Somewhat easier is describing, evaluating, discussing, demonstrating, re-evaluating in person with the student and teacher. There are many postings on the subject of "vibrato how to" in/on this BB; read them and try the suggestions, evaluate your attempts and continue from there. Having someone (usually it helps to have someone that actually uses vibrato -- but not always) help you privately might be your best route.
The "how fast" answer depends mostly on context. Your vibrato should be flexible enough that you are able to alter and control the "speed" depending on what piece, what phrase, what note, what part of what note you're playing.
I use a combination of lip and jaw pressure and diaphragmatic vibrato. I started my musical studies as a vocalist and when I started clarinet playing I instantly used vibrato. I never thought of it one way or the other at the time. Only later in college did I hear that it was "controversial."
I grew up listening to Gervase De Peyer's playing and found and find his style of playing and his earlier sound to be an ideal model for me at that time. It all seemed so natural -- as it should. I studied with De Peyer for many years and continue to play for and coach with him. We rarely discuss vibrato; the discussions usually come up when I interrupt the airflow, support or forward momentum of the phrase with the incorrect technical usage of vibrato or when there is some musical or technical discussion about a particular placement of the vibrato within a passage.
Simplifications:
-- For jazz style playing, I would suggest a mouthpiece tending toward the open end of the range with a suitable (usually softer) reed to help in the flexibility needed and apply mostly jaw, lip pressure variations and some diaphragmatic vibrato to achieve a good vibrato.
-- For classical style playing, I recommend keeping your current set-up and start by trying to incorporate vibrato using a subtle combination of lip and jaw pressure and diaphragmatic vibrato.
(Allen, Thanks for the kind remarks -- about me and Gervase.)
Tom Piercy
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