 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2003-08-08 01:42
While I'm on a whine streak... I hate how there are hardly any music stores in the world that cater to wind players... They opened a remodeled "H&H Music Store" (a big name in Houston, I don't know about other places). So I went to today, hoping that the new, larger, allegedly better store might have a better woodwind selection, and I even have a naive hope (though I knew it wasn't true) that they might have a few boxes of the new Vandoren reeds... Well, as I sadly expected, I walked in to see walls covered in electric guitars and drumsticks stretching as far as the eye could see, and a tiny woodwind corner (with, from what I could tell, LESS stuff than the old store had). Not that there is anything wrong with guitars and drums, but still... and if you ask a worker anything not related to guitars or drums their eyes just glaze over....
I guess for economic reasons they stock what sells, but from my teaching I happen to know that there are about 10 gizillion clarinet players in the Houston area in high school and junior high alone, so it's not like there isn't a market for some stuff! I mean, I'm not expecting the full line of Buffet and Leblanc clarinets to be sitting there ready for me to try, but there has got to be a happy medium. I know that mail-order has a wide variety and that's where I get most of my stuff, but as a true-blue instant gratification junkie, it's tough sitting by the mailbox for 5-9 days (I'm impatient... what can I say)?
Any economically inclined people know why the stores work that way? Or is it just a vast conspiracy to destroy legitimate musical arts (orchestrated by the manufacturers of the virtual orchestra?!?!?!?!) <--- obviously not, but an interesting theory. Just wanted to complain a little and see if anyone had insight into this situation...
Thanks
Don Hite - theclarinetist@yahoo.com
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-08-08 02:23
Hi Don,
I hear ya'
I was just back to a music store in N. Ohio today that I have been going to for well over 40 years and they are still in business. But things have changed a lot.
I used to carry about 16 woodwind students there every Saturday for many, many years. There were also several other teachers with full schedules as well. Now, the former studios are for storage and for string repair. The owner says "we can be much more productive with string sales and repairs. Teaching never carried much of the overhead."
I went into the former large storeroom which is now a compete repair facility; this is new in the last 20 years or so. There are 4 full-time techs and assistants plus several others part-time workers. Everyone was busy and my main guy tweaked up my Mark VI alto with a couple of small, quick adjustments. Lots of work getting ready for the busy school season.
Upstairs, the keyboard area is enlarged and seems to be the backbone of the store. What was a very complete music section is now gone and all the accessories are pre-packaged and hang on racks.
The owner (an old friend) seems happy with the way things have gone. He is still a fine businessman and an excellent salesman as well.
I am originally from a small town that had two music stores about 50 years ago. Now there are none. The days of the mom-and-pop small music business are numbered. I remember when you could go to any very large town and always find a music store with an aged but wisened owner who was always willing to chat.
"The times, the times they are changing."
HRL
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-08-08 15:27
Hey Hank, haven't yah heard? Walmart now sells what they call clarinets.
Bob A
Post Edited (2003-08-08 15:27)
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Author: ChrisC
Date: 2003-08-08 15:40
fwiw, Manny's in New York City did away entirely with its woodwind section several years ago--probably around the time they were bought out by Sam Ash.
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2003-08-08 16:05
I suspect that Walmart are much less to blame than is the Internet, or mail-order generally.
An internet store in England will sell you a decent student clarinet for not much over £300. A local store will often - not always - ask £400 for the same instrument. Sure, it's easier to try-before-you-buy at the local store, but if you are a beginner then how are you supposed to judge?
Much the same price ratios apply to reeds.
Is it any surprise that the local store goes out of business?
So why do local electric guitar stores stay in business? I suspect - I have no evidence - that this is because there are far more instruments to choose from, and fashion plays a significant part in the choice. Whereas there are very few models of student clarinet to choose from, and fashion plays no part whatever. So the electric guitar market makes it easier for stores to set their own prices in a way that doesn't allow easy comparison: if you see this really cool-looking guitar in a local shop you may not find the same model on the Internet.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-08-08 16:26
David Peacham wrote:
>So why do local electric guitar stores stay in business? I suspect - I have no evidence - >that this is because there are far more instruments to choose from...
Along with the fact that if you are trying to impress the opposite sex, you are more likely to have better luck by playing a few licks on a Fender Stratocaster, as opposed to a Buffet Vintage ...GBK
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-08-08 17:41
GBK is right on. With guitars, we are dealing with a more mass-market item and learning a few chords can get you a long way.
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2003-08-08 18:20
GBK is right, of course, unless the member of the opposite sex you are trying to impress is also a woodwind player ![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif)
I worked in a music store for several years. I observed that when people came looking for upgrade instruments, they often tried out instruments and sought advice at the store and then bought mail order anyway. I personally am willing to pay a bit more for good advice and service, but some people are not that way. The accessory side of the business is affected by the fact that many of your highest volume potential customers go mail order for accessories as well.
I have found that a local shop that is run by woodwind players has a good enough discount system for me to buy my reeds locally for a little more, but I don't have to pay shipping.
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2003-08-08 18:52
I guess I'm sort of weird, I plan on buying an A clarinet in the near future, and I want to try a lot of different brands, so my plan is to drive 20 hours to South Bend Indiana to the WWBW Store to try them all. I hate the thought of ordering a bunch then returning them, too risky. And as I've learned from playing around, even if I pick a certain brand, model, etc, I may have to try 15-20 of that particular brand before I find one that "feels right". This, I think is the main problem (for me) of mail order (reeds, accessories are great for mail order, however).
My teacher picked my Bb R-13 for me, and I have a very great one, but I'd like the experience of trying many different brands and picking one for myself, so I guess it's off to Indiana (that is, when I save up the rest of the money I need for the clarinet, and the gasoline to get there for that matter!) = )
Don
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2003-08-08 19:48
theclarinetist wrote:
> my plan is to drive 20 hours to South Bend Indiana to the
> WWBW Store to try them all
.....
> and the gasoline to get there for that
> matter!) = )
>
Don't feel so sorry for yourself! If you drive for 20 hours in England you're either going in circles or you fall off the edge.
And the "gasoline", as you call it, would cost about 1/3 as much as a student clarinet.
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If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-08-08 20:59
Hi Everyone,
I always try to buy as much stuff locally but the main problem is few dealers and afford to stock a large cross-section of music supplies. In the old days (1950s) we just used what reeds were there or they ordered a box which usually took a week or so.
I have been in three sheet music stores (Detroit, Cleveland, and Toledo) looking over music recently and made several small purchases. At all stores, the heplful clerks told me "we can order anything for you."
Howwever, I overheard one music store owner saying "Geez, xxxx HS band director just called me with an order for 100 marching folders, couln't he have called a few weeks ago. What poor planning" and some other choice words. After being rather troubled that the owner would discuss this so loudly, I reflected on the many years when I was getting a large HS band ready for the football season and might have even done something like this as well (probably not though since I tend to be pretty anal retentive). I think the reaason that my old friend's music store (mentioned above) is still in business is service and courtesy.
As far as driving to the music store, I am 3 hours from WW&BW and 4 1/2 hours IMS. I'm now very happy to be in the Rust Belt of the Midwest for a change (and we just got Trader Joe's).
This whole eCommerce thing is really having a tough effect on the music store. Even Mars Music could not make it with all their guitars, drums, and sound systems.
Just some musings!
HRL
PS I wonder if repair techs might all begin to carry a few MPS, reeds, etc. Nahh!
Post Edited (2003-08-09 01:45)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-08-08 21:04
Hank Lehrer said:
>This whole eCommerce thing is really having a tough effect on the music store. Even Mars >Music could not make it with all their guitars, drums, and sound systems.
Let's not forget about the NYC branch of WW/BW having to close their doors...GBK
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Author: Pam H.
Date: 2003-08-09 00:47
I hear you. I try to patronize local business when I can, but I know that certain music stores in the area will have what I want and others won't. It's amazing to me at times how difficult it is to find a simple silk swab!
I usually buy music and lesson books, sometimes reeds if desparate through local stores and have only occasionally had to have them order something.
I too buy a lot of my accessories online because it's easier to find the item I want, I don't have to use up a lot of time and traffic hassles running all over plus they often cost less than buying locally.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-08-10 17:32
Anyone who has sat through 3 hours of prevarication while an up-and-coming reed player tries every permutation of gear...
*and then buys mail order to save 11%*
knows why the local stock of instruments is small.
There are how many serious students of wind instruments willing to spend money on low margin items?
I blame the distributors for offering volume discounts to mail-order and internet houses that the local stores can't receive.
When my local store can get one (or two) professional horns from the distributor at a wholesale price HIGHER than the mass-market selling price, they turn to items with turnover and better margins.
As to the NYC stores closing up shop; professional players rarely have the scratch to buy things... school kids, however, do buy.
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Author: msroboto
Date: 2003-08-11 04:15
I guess I was lucky. When I lived in Massachusetts I was near a local Music store owned by a clarinet player / bassoonist. Close enough to a University with a music program that she always had a bunch of professional clarinets to choose from. The prices were close enough to the internet prices that I bought my R-13 and accesories from there. I had at least 6 Bb's to choose from and there were more just what they setup for me. Also, they carry A's as well in sufficient quantity. All are play tested by the professor at the University. I think they carried Leblanc professional clarinets as well.
Accessories were close enough in price that I would buy most things there because I wanted them to be there when I needed stuff.
Down here is Georgia I would say not so lucky. I've been to a few of the local stores. Outrageous prices for reeds and other accessories has sent me scurrying for the internet. I'm talking about $26.00 for a box of V-12's.
oh well...http://........
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Author: curious
Date: 2003-08-12 03:47
Hey, I live in Geneva Switzerland where we still have, not just one or two, but nearly a half a dozen mom and pop stores dedicated JUST to woodwinds.
Problem is, on each instrument, whether new OR used, they expect to make two week's to a month living on the mark up alone. I certainly cannot afford to accomodate them in this manner. I go to them for advice and repairs, and an occasional emergency box of reeds and buy all my stuff from wwbw.com and have my relatives send it over.
The only time I felt I could afford to buy an instrument here was at a local pawn shop, where a well known spanish classical, in great condition, was for sale at nearly half the price of music123.com.
So much for nostalgia about the good old days.
The preponderance of guitar stuff also drives me nuts (referring mainly to the electrics). Get the feeling that stores stock gazillions of them because acquisition syndrome for guilar players is endemic... much worse than for woodwind players. You get the impression that every single guitarist must have at least 5 guitars and buys yet another one every six months.
Post Edited (2003-08-12 04:04)
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