 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: n_hanson12
Date: 2003-08-04 15:28
Reading the thread on Music and Emotions made me think of this and I was wondering what you think.
I have a problem with triplets and no matter how many times my teacher sits down with me and works on it, I can't seem to keep the rhythm in my head for more than a few minutes. He once suggested that perhaps I had not been exposed to triplets at a young age, therefore I never developed the capability to remember them. He said that he thinks that children stop developing musically after a certain age. They can still be taught different musical elements after this point, but it will not be ingrained in them as well.
I don't know if any research or anything has been done on this, but I would be interested in seeing what you make of it.
~Nicki
P.S. he never did say what age he thought musical development stopped though...
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-08-04 16:00
Perhaps you are taking what he said out of context. In my opinion your problem with triplets is not a function of age.
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Author: William
Date: 2003-08-04 16:12
My old clarinet teacher used the word, "beautiful" (beau-ti-ful) to describe the rhythmic pulse of the triplet. However, I sometimes turned it into "terrible". Hope this helps, his verbal trick worked on me.
(now, on to Mississippi, Mississippi......................)
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-08-04 16:40
With my beginners, to initially get the feel of consecutive triplets (or sextuplets), I find that having them think of the phrase "strawberry elephant" always seems to work. It's so silly, that they remember it.
For groups of 4 sixteenths, William's "mississippi" idea is a good one.
For groups of 5 even notes, I have them think of the word "pharmaceutical"
...GBK
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Author: clarinet87
Date: 2003-08-04 17:26
I started clarinet in 6th grade in middle school but I hardly ever practiced. I didn't get really interested until 9th grade when I made first chair. Therefore I never picked up on some of the basic rhythms until I started taking lessons. Instead of learning how to read basic rhythms in middle school like I should have I had to learn them in high school when the music was more difficult.
One rhythm I have trouble with are tripelets. My teacher tells me to think of triplets by saying tri-pe-let, tri-pe-let over and over at a steady tempo. A book you might want to get to help you with triplets and other rythms is P. Bona, Complete Method For Rythmical Articulation. Don't get discouraged by triplets, just keep practicing them over and over.
Post Edited (2003-08-04 22:34)
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Author: n_hanson12
Date: 2003-08-04 17:51
hold on here, no offense but what I really wanted to know was about the theory that if children aren't exposed to music at an early age, it will be more difficult for them later on.
Sorry for the confusion and again, no offense intended.
~Nicki
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-08-04 18:48
Although I'm no expert in this area, it seems obvious that a child's brain is much more "pliable" and quicker to assimilate new ideas and experiences of all kind than is the older brain. This is true for languages, music, sports, science, etc., etc. But this is no reason to "give up" on learning new things (such as triplets) at an older age. It will just take a bit longer and requires more effort. Speaking for myself, I believe that I still learn something new every day (among other things through this BB) but at a slower rate than I used to. When I stop acquiring new knowledge and abilities, I'll have a real reason to worry!
So, don't give up. I'm sure that triplets are not too complicated for an adult to ultimately master.
Henry
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Author: andreak
Date: 2003-08-04 21:27
Sorry this is off the original request, but I'm still laughing over "pharmaceutical" for counting in 5's...
I think I've got it now, after having pieces in both community bands with lots of rhythm changes in the past year. Pharmaceuticals would have helped the whole group the first time we saw each piece!
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2003-08-04 21:34
When we were young my parents had us divide the cake or pie for the family, and we got the last piece left. Maybe that's why we learned how to divide evenly! Math? Dividing the cake? Dividing the measures? Same thing.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2003-08-04 22:51
I've seen some info on learning differences but don't recall where I saw it. As near as I can remember, the result was that it takes about the same amount of time for kids as older folks but for different reasons. The young brain is a pliable sponge for new knowledge but it doesn't have the discipline to focus thus slowing down learning. The older person is able to focus (and practice) in a disciplined manner but the brain is somewhat less flexible thus slowing down learning. The end result is about the same but the path is different.
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Author: Francesca
Date: 2003-08-05 01:00
"He said that he thinks that children stop developing musically after a certain age. They can still be taught different musical elements after this point, but it will not be ingrained in them as well."
I'm going to reply to this with a yes/no answer. Yes, many aspects of music are best learned at a young age. As a music ed major, it's been emphasized that pre-school and elementary music teahers are very important. The foundations of pitch, rhythm, and listening skills are laid between the ages of 3-10 years old, with most of the development occuring by the age of 5. This is what I've read in music ed textbooks. I'm sure this statement is from a variety of sources.
Now, does this mean you're doomed to forever struggle with rhythm, in your case triplets? Definitely not. Think of triplets as higher level rhythm. As long as you are able to keep a fairly steady beat, practice will make all other rhythms fall into place. Also, not to make assumptions, but mind set has quite an effect on learning. Perhaps your struggle with triplets is because you want them to be easy quickly, or because you need some more confidence in your ability to play them. Just my two cents. Hope this helped.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-08-05 02:16
Can you play in 6/8 time? Because 6/8 time often is just two "triplets" to the beat. Maybe you can reference that sort of thing. Also, try to play in the rhythm of the good 'ol West Side Story version of when all the spanish folk sing how great it is to be in America. "Everything free in A-mer-ri-ca\ No room for me in A-mer-ri-ca". This tempo is all in 6/8 time and constantly switches back from "tri-ple-et, tri-ple-et, one, two, three". You'll see how the mood of the triplet feels with this song.
alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: n_hanson12
Date: 2003-08-05 19:49
Francesca,
You might be right, I could be having more trouble than is necessary because I don't think that I can do it. I guess I never thought of it that way before.
sfalexi,
Yes, I can play in 6/8 time and have been doing so for some time now. The difficulty I have with triplets comes when they cross over beats, that's when I usually lose my place and end up playing them like an eighth and 2 sixteenths. (Most of the time anyway)
I love your suggestion about West Side Story. I own the soundtrack, but I guess I never sat down to listen closely to the rhythms. I will definately try it.
~Nicki
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Author: C. Hogue
Date: 2003-08-05 20:54
Ah, one of my band directors used to drill us:
Blue-ber-ry
Straw-ber-ry
Rasp-ber-ry
"Just pick your favorite!" he said.
It worked better for me than a predecessor's "trip-a-let" for triplets.
When I was working out triplets that move over two beats, I began listening for this figure in all the music I listen to. It's in jazz, rock, soul, classical, and show-tunes. Listening for them really helped. Now I feel two-beat triplets rather than trying to "berry" them.
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-08-06 01:28
Just for the heck of it, I'll throw in my favorite triplet-spacing word (learned from Gene Krupa's drum method): "merrily." Since it's short, it's also easy to say quickly, and it doesn't need to be exaggerated to find the three separate beats.
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Author: Ron Jr.
Date: 2003-08-06 14:37
In an ideal world our world class pianst, clarinetist mothers would have known PRECISELY that we would have a career in clarinet performance and would have done the following; She would have pumped music into her womb when we were zygotes. When you were born we would have been exposed to many different types of music during your waking hours. We would have started drumming at age 2, taken recorder at 4, kinder klarinette at age 5 and e flat clarinet at age 6. We would have private tutors from age 2 on and we would have ensemble experience year round. Musical theory on piano and solflege would be among the many daily topics that our tutor would cover.
If one's parents can't provide this type of support for their child's musical aspriations, then they have failed completely and the child is doomed to attempt to learn all the musical nuances that they could have more easily learned while in kindergarten.
Not having had this type of musical education I am resigned to my utterly lamentable musically impoverished existence.
Ron Jr.
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