 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: moose6589
Date: 2003-08-03 09:47
Hmm I was just searching on the boards for how I could increase my projection, and I found some rather surprising stuff in addition to all the usual things. Several posts suggested producing overtones to increase resonance; however, I've always assumed that everyone else can also hear your overtones.... Apparently, this is not so? This can be found here:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=36765&t=36747
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=80949&t=80096
In addition, it said that when listening to some really great players up close, the sound sounded too edgy and bright, but far away, it sounded perfect like say in a large hall. that's also found in the above thread. Umm so what exactly am I supposed to do? I'm getting the impression that what sounds smooth and mellow to you may indeed be garbage to the audience, and vice versa? Ok then, so what exactly DO you do to increase projection while retaining your tone quality? This all seems rather confusing.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-08-03 21:01
There is no substitute for feedback, in this instance.
It will require a second set of ears you trust (an instructor, perhaps?) and a good retention of the sound you're making, as a catalog.
One of my favorite local players has a wide repetoire of sound colors, depending on the venue and chart.
Essentially, he says that playing "Wide Open" with full vibrato and maximum power (without too much attention to tuning) is essential only in the loudest of Big Band charts he plays.
The rest of the time, he shows up to the venue and tests the space.
If unamplified (most of the time), he plays with more edge than he would like in his sound to compensate for the absorption by bodies in the audience...
Start with someone you know and trust sitting about 15 rows deep in an auditorium. Polling your conductors will be good, too.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2003-08-03 22:41
If you really want a clear and understandable explanation of what constitutes projection from a clarinet, piccolo, an opera singer, etc., may I suggest you read page 35 of Ernest Ferron's book, "The Clarinet revealed".
Mr. Ferron talks about the ear's sensitive bandpass of frequencies and which harmonics must be increased in the basic sound in order to have a "projected" sound.
After you read the page and see the harmonic sound intensity graphs on the preceding page, IMO, there won't be any misunderstanding.
I would explain more, but, I'm not sure about the legalities.
A crystal clear explanation...(IMO)
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-08-03 23:09
I think most accoustic musicians are faced with a difficult dilemna. A nice personal up close sound in the practice room often doesn't translate to the projection required in actual performance. It should be remembered that it is the sound at the back of the hall that matters but you also need to balance this with the onstage blending required by winds. The accompanying/competing/complimentary sounds also have an effect on projection. If strings are involved the mode of projection is different to concert bands and likewise with amplified instruments. A lot of the phenomena of projection cannot be accoustically explained accurately.
Ina concert band with 10 to 12 clarinets you often feel that you are playing quite loud and projecting but somehow the surrounding clarinet sound seems to soak the individual sound up whereas orchestrally there are more often than not 2 soprano clarinets in harmony, not counting eefers or bass, and the sound of 2 clarinets seems to project more readily. In other words 2 project more prominently than 12. Orchestrally the clarinet is placed further back on the stage and yet the clarinet sound is more distinct again than the oncert band seting where you are further forward. Again orchestrally you are balancing from with a small wind ensemble. Some times you need to project other times you are in the middle of the blend. I personally think clarinet projection is assisted by the presence of the viola and cello likewise with the bassoon.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2003-08-03 23:50
Mark said:
..."A lot of the phenomena of projection cannot be accoustically explained accurately."
May I beg to differ. IMO, in "The Clarinet revealed", projection is very accurately explained in words and in sound harmonic intensity graphs.
For example, a concert "A" pitch of 440 Hz with a fundamental volume intensity of 46db will sound "louder" with harmonics in the 2,000 to 4000Hz range of 26db than an identical sound with a fundamental of 46db and the same harmonics in the 20db range. Every 3db of increased volume requires a doubling of the energy content.
What this means is a tone with 26db of harmonic content, within the ear's most sensitive bandpass of frequencies, will have 4 times as much energy as a tone with 20db of harmonic content within this same bandpass of frequencies.
IMO, it appears that with the proper audio measuring equipment... clarinets, mouthpieces, reeds and ligatures could easily be measured for their respective influence on the harmonics to which the ear is very sensitive.
I hope the above helps.
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Author: moose6589
Date: 2003-08-04 06:50
Hmm interesting. Well, but what about projection say in a solo by yourself with piano, or perhaps with no accompaniment at all? I played the Mozart Concerto to a judge few months ago, by myself, and she took off a point for not enough projection... What does this mean? She was 3 feet away, so how can I not project enough to her? And in such a situation, with what type of tone would you use, a bright, projective tone, or a dark, non-projective tone?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-08-04 14:46
Moose -
Here are a couple of additional threads:
http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=18806&t=18784
http://www.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=43807&t=43777
Anthony Gigliotti had more projection than anybody. At a master class, he played the solo from The Pines of Rome at a vanishingly soft pppppp, yet it carried perfectly to the back of a huge, very dead hall.
To play in a large orchestra, in a large hall, you simply have to have plenty of high frequency energy in your sound. It sounds a lot different out in the hall than it does to you, or even on recording. Gigliotti sounded marvelous in person, but, for my taste, too bright on recordings. The same for Alan Hacker.
You have to be able to play with many good tones. For the Brahms Quintet, you need a much less energetic, "darker" tone than you would use for a Brahms symphony, let alone for Stravinsky.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-08-05 06:12
Thanks for the theoretical lesson Dan. Like much theory the practice is often different. The content of my post deals with too many ambient considerations to be explained away theoretically. My contention is in the explanation not the theoretical measurement. I have from time to time been involved in accoustical experiments at a local university physics department with a professor in musical accoustics. I have seen quite a number of measurement processes with woodwind and brass instruments, including every possible combination of pad closures on a flute, so I know where you are coming from. Fascinating stuff but it does little to explain what goes on in actual performance. If the theoretical side of this was perfect then digital generation would be indistinguishable from the real thing, it is not. Interesting recording implications though.
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