 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarinet87
Date: 2003-08-03 02:11
Do you think Beethoven belongs in the Classical or Romantic era? The reason I ask is that I was reading a book on classical music and the author referred to Beethoven as a Classical era composer. I think his music seems more Romantic, especially his Fifth Symphony. I've listened to his 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 9th symphonies and they all sound like Romantic era music to me. Other pieces, like his Egmont and Leonore Overtures, come across as Romantic also. Who could possibly think of Beethoven as a Classical composer?
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-08-03 03:06
You can probably view Beethoven as being on the cusp. Although technically he fell into the classical period he began experimentation with the classical forms such as the Symphony. The big two prior to Beethoven were firstly Haydn and Mozart and these composers are often used as somewhat of a bench mark for the classical style. There is a certain formulaic trend in the symphonies of both Mozart and Haydn which I dare say was wearing thin, this is where Beethoven diverges from his predecessors. Rather than using the traditional form of 1st Movement Sonata Form, 2nd Movement Theme and Variation, 3rd Movement Minuet and Trio, 4th Movement Rondo he started using other forms. One example is the use of a Scherzo rather than Minuet and Trio as the 3rd movement. Another example is the use of the Fugue in the last movement of the 9th. Beethoven also began to extend the harmonic vocabulary a little bit as well. This is a rather simplistic explanation but it may help.
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Author: aaron_diestel
Date: 2003-08-03 03:12
One oculd make an argument both ways, however I feel differently.
I classify Beethoven as a classical composer, mainly because of his use of musical forms and how he treats his orchestrations in his irchestral works.
In his symphonies, espically the 1st, one notes a distinct similarity to Haydan, one of Beethoven's teachers, however in the late symphonies, mainly the 9th, there is no comparison to Haydan. In my opinion the way the orchestra is used (2 of each wind instrument, Eroica being the exception, and a classical sized contingent of strings) this has me lean towards a classical somposer. Plus the way the symphonies are structured are extremly classical in nature. Almost predictable in a sense. NOt to say that all classical symphonies are predictable, but they can all pretty much fallow a certain form. Yes Mahler follows a certain form, as well as Bruckner, but the forms are extremely drawn out with many, many different aspects used than they way beethoven used. there could be an argument made about his late pianio/string works, but that's what leads many scholars to leave the classification to Beethoven as a bridge composer, bridging the gap between classical and romantic.
I could go on and cite specific examples, but this is not the forum to discuss this in. I am no msuical scholar but there are my educated opinions. In the end I would classify Beethoven as a classical composer with romantic tendencies in his later years.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-08-03 03:34
How ironic that a new century begins (1800) and Beethoven's First Symphony begins with the bold and unconventional dominant seventh chord of the subdominant (V7 of IV).
Was he making a statement, telling the world that a new era of music had begun?
Was he declaring his independence from the Classical traditions he was taught?
Was he a visionary, with sights far beyond his peers?
Quite possibly all of the above ...GBK
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-08-03 22:33
GBK - take a look at some of the early Haydn symphonies... he was very adventurous, too ... much before Beethoven. As to the question - he was Classical. I like Mark's "cusp" usage ... very insightful.
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2003-08-04 19:55
This is off the subject, but I think it's funny that we generally refer to music from all periods as "classical music"... From Bach to Stravinsky. However, if you walked into a normal Cd store and asked to be shown their baroque music section, they'd probably take you to a bin of damaged, 1/2 off CDs, so maybe the generalization works to our advantage... = )
Don Hite - theclarinetist@yahoo.com
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