 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: James
Date: 2003-07-28 23:32
Does anyone know how to mature a dark tone. Not to be annoying and ask "what reeds should I use", but is it nessasarly(not quite sure if i spelled that correctly, sleepy) what reed you have to make a dark tone. I experienced bright, flimsy, squaky tones from thinner blank reeds. Ive also tried to use harder reeds that i dont normaly play on, and play on them until i eventually brake them in. I would usually like the end result, though it took forever to get to it, of a nice dark, wooden, earthen sound. but anywho........ is there any particular way to achieve this dark sound?
Ive herd lower notes played Solid and Liquidy (is the best way I could describe it) and Dark.
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Author: krawfish3x
Date: 2003-07-28 23:50
well, equipment has a lot to do with it in my opinion. closed mouthpieces and hard reeds could produce a dark sound but embouchure could do a lot with it.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-07-29 00:28
James wrote:
> Does anyone know how to mature a dark tone.
Since we have no idea what your idea of a dark tone is, there isn't anything we can really tell you.
However, if you have a particular tone ideal in mind, then you can carefully try different things. Record yourself with your current setup, and then try changing ONE thing and record yourself again. Is it closer or farther away from your ideal? If closer, stick with it for a while and record yourself again (after a month or so). Are you still on the right track?
It's going to take a long time, and you've got to find out for yourself if you're heading in the right direction.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2003-07-29 00:53
James, I think it would be helpful for us to know what type of set-up you are now using.
With that at hand, perhaps some concrete suggestions might be forthcoming.
Please be specific as to what kind of clarinet, mouthpiece, ligature and reed you are presently using.
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Author: Leonard Buchanan
Date: 2003-07-29 02:55
When you play on a woodwind instrument, the most important thing is that you hear what kind of sound you want before you even play the note. One of the great things about playing an instrument with your mouth is that it automatically knows how to contort to create that sound you want.
If you want general guidelines, then try these few pointers:
-Play with an open throat, or at last try to anyway
-Minimize pressure on the mouthpiece and sustain tones with your breath support alone
As Krawfish up there pointed out, equipment also has much to do with it: a mouthpiece with a large chamber along with a small tip opening will help with that "hollow" (a.k.a. Dark) sound you're trying to achieve.
But in the end, it all boils down to mainly just you.
Hope this helped in some way,
-Leonard
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-07-29 03:41
A lot of your tone has to do with your voicing, mainly the positioning of your tongue in the back. Experiment with different positions of your tongue and throat, and find out what gives you what type of sound. A 'mature' sound is usually associated with 'eee' voicing and as open a throat as that will allow.
After a while, you'll be able to listen to other clarinetists and guess what their voicing is like!
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Author: mervin
Date: 2003-07-29 05:58
So what mouthpiece has "a large chamber along with a small tip opening"?
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-07-29 12:23
There are serious, and experienced players posting regularly on this BBS.
I am certainly neither, so take what I tell you with a grain of salt.
*****
It is true that equipment may make your playing easier or more difficult.
Anyone that has had a persistent leak that causes squeaks knows this.
A mouthpiece may make certain parts of your playing louder than you would like, or more difficult to reach with certainty.
That being said, I (mis)quote Larry Combs, "Equipment is not important."
The best players that I have heard don't spend hours widdling away with gear, they PRACTICE. Furthermore, they listen to their sound closely.
It would seem that you have begun to listen to your sound, and that's the first step in the right direction.
I find that when my teacher compliments my sound, I can feel my chest vibrating with the note. My guess (a SWAG, no doubt) is that the air in my lungs is being excited by the back pressure of the clarinet when everything is lining up to make a solid tone.
*****
The awful truth...
From a distance, the nasty sound you hear actually sounds good!
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2003-07-29 12:44
I agree with "Synonymous Botch."
Everyone's knee-jerk reaction to getting a "dark" or "warm" sound seems to be to go out and buy different mouthpiece, barrel, reeds, and/or ligature. Personally, I like buying new toys. Been There, Done That. But this effort was not successful for me.
There are plenty of players who can make really wonderful sounds with stock barrels and mouthpiece facings, relatively soft reeds, and inexpensive ligatures.
Practice in a room with some natural reverb - a hard floor will help you hear yourself better. Play long tones, every day. This will strengthen and stabilize your embouchure. Listen to your sound. Relax, and enjoy the process.
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Author: James
Date: 2003-07-29 19:57
When I said "Dark", I mean to describe the general mature tone. Hopefully that doesnt sound to vague.....but, I use a 5RV Lyre Mouthpiece with a V.12 Vandoren reeds, size 4. My instrument is a E11. Obviously, I am a amateur since I had not yet thought of the idea of my equipment. Has anyone ever herd of a wooden mouthpiece? How would that sound?
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-07-29 20:03
Did you actually read the responses?
If you have money burning a hole in your pocket, go buy some more reeds.
Or take a few lessons.
Or go fishing...
Or do a search on this BBS, where this topic has been belaboured,
ad nauseum...
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2003-07-29 20:29
It's hard for me to believe the verbal put-downs (IMO) that exist on this BB.
No wonder some young beginners are afraid to post here.
IMO, being sarcastic or verbally berating someone is NOT HELPFUL!!
Mark...GBK...any comments????????
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-07-29 20:36
Dan wrote:
> It's hard for me to believe the verbal put-downs (IMO) that
> exist on this BB.
This is one of the most gentle BBoards I've ever been on ...
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Author: Phat Cat
Date: 2003-07-30 12:14
When I want a warm, dark tone I turn off the A/C, close the drapes and play by candlelight.
The point that Mark and others have made countless times on this BB is that such characterizations as “warm” and “dark” are completely subjective. Your warm and dark may be my bright and cold. Any advice given remotely be someone who has not heard you play is a shot in the dark, however well-intended.
Ask your question of a professional teacher who has observed your playing and can make suitable recommendations. For all any us know, you could already sound like Marcellus and our advice could make you sound like...well, us.
And Mark is right. This is easily the gentlest BB I've seen.
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Author: ned
Date: 2003-07-30 23:08
" It's hard for me to believe the verbal put-downs (IMO) that exist on this BB.
No wonder some young beginners are afraid to post here.
IMO, being sarcastic or verbally berating someone is NOT HELPFUL!!"
The truth is, sometimes it's a big bad world out there folks - who has not been treated scarcastically or verbally berated by a tutor or band leader?
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2003-07-31 01:53
John, I stand by what I said. Verbal abuse, in any form, is NOT HELPFUL.
I speak, principally, with reference to beginners, young and not so young. Whenever a person new to the clarinet gets enough bravery to expose his or her ignorance and is met with put downs, sarcasms, or is made the butt of a joke...I simply cannot see how this is helpful in encouraging a person to go forward.
Yes, I agree...it is a "big bad world out there". Does this mean that we should perpetuate or foster this ugliness on this wonderful website??
IMO, any person should be able to ask any question (even if it's been asked 12,439 times before) and receive a respectful reply. I really do not believe that this is expecting too much.
If a person gets nauseated by a certain repetitious question...why can't they simply just ignore the post and go on to another one??
This is still the best website to ask questions and learn about the clarinet.
Respect begets respect...abuse begets abuse...
I can only hope that we will not foster the belief that abuse is "normal".
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-07-31 02:14
Dan,
Respect includes respecting the posters that have spent time in creating thoughtful answers - and reading them.
I don't want this BBoard to become "touchy-feely" or the opposite. A little sarcasm, as long as it's not personal, isn't necessarily a bad thing.
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Author: graham
Date: 2003-07-31 08:04
One way to go about this is to think which world famous player is closest to your ideal. That way others may have an idea what "dark" and "mature" mean to you. Even better, find out what that person does to create that sound. It may not be reeds or mouthpiece that defines it for them, but they may be a factor.
I agree with SB, but on the other hand I think mouthpieces can be a big factor. I have several, and the differences really do make a difference. If you know whether something like a 5RV is used by the person whose sound you most admire, that has to be useful knowledge in your pursuit of your goal.
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