 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Melissa
Date: 2003-07-28 16:01
I just joined a local concert band, and they are playing First Suite. I was wondering if there is anything I should know about some of the clarinet parts, like I should use this type of tounging here and that there, dynamics, and style. Yes this is a very open topic just trying to see what others have found with this piece.
Thanks, Melissa.
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Author: ken
Date: 2003-07-28 17:03
Other than a separate solo clarinet part and some mixed meter the Holst is straight forward for what is debatably the flagship of standard band works. Just play the ink, follow and blend with your Principal player and section and do what the conductor tells you (regardless of how un-musical it might seem). v/r Ken
Post Edited (2003-07-28 17:04)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-07-28 17:23
Well said, Ken et al, good music, will keep anyone busy, did me on bass cl. Isn't there a Second Suite [more maybe?] , not quite as popular, tho? Our comm band plays several numbers by Ed Huckaby [a local composer!], about the same degree of difficulty. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-07-28 18:19
Pretty much standard band fare and yes, there is a separate solo and 1st clarinet with a few different sections but for the most part, the same. All the clarinet parts are a challenge but not impossible. About grade 4 - 5 I'd say.
Don, yes there is a Second Suite in F which includes March, Song without Words, Song of the Blacksmith, and the terrific closing section a Fantasia on the Dargason (along with Greensleeves). The last section has several different rhythms super-imposed on one another.
However, my favorite suite by Holst is the Moorside. There is a terrific reading of it by the Dallas Winds that is worth having if one is keen on British all-brass scoring.
HRL
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Author: glin
Date: 2003-07-29 00:10
I agree with all-'tis a nice piece and a standard in the band medium. My community band played it last night at our last concert for the summer. The clarinet parts are straightforward and as stated, there is a solo first part.
The key as is with most pieces is to watch your conductor and listen for the other sections of the band. Try to obtain a recording to get a glimpse of the musicality.
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-07-29 00:45
Oh that more of the "masters" of music could have written for the concert band (sigh).
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-07-29 02:36
diz,
You are so right about that statement. I think the literature has come a long way in the past half-century or so but I don't, IMHO, think too much of contemporary band music will pass the Holst-quality test over time.
I wish John Williams would write some cool things for band like his American Journey. What a fine piece of music that would lend itself well to the wind ensemble.
HRL
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Author: CJB
Date: 2003-07-29 12:15
It's also about the only piece I know where having a 2nd Eb is a blessing - the start of the 2nd movement sounds so much better with 2Eb than having the 1st Bb cover the lower line.
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Author: ken
Date: 2003-07-29 17:53
CJB wrote:, "the start of the 2nd movement sounds so much better with 2Eb than having the 1st Bb cover the lower line."
--I haven't performed this piece in ages, but I recall that cue in the 1st clar part of the Intermezzo. If I’m not mistaken isn't that 2nd eefer part an alternate voice or double of one of the upper woodwinds, i.e. 2nd flute, 3rd flute or 2nd oboe? Mercifully, Holst favored the instrument enough to pen a legitimate 1st E-flat part.
MY favorite movement is the last, the March. The ABA form, use and clever combination of two melodies make for one exciting counterpoint and finale! If you've ever played his Second Suite and Fantasia of St. Paul's Suite for Strings he incorporates the same idea.
Sadly, diz is correct. Most 20th century orchestra composers didn't choose to (or care to) write for concert band, or not nearly enough of them did. But truthfully, composing for band is also a legitimate art form. The same composers who reject(ed) it didn’t possess a realistic grasp of the color and instrument combinations, and diverse voicings "unique" to the medium, (e.g. Samuel Barber, Commando March, the only work he wrote for band). But even Barber played in a band at one time in his career. Still others, ignominiously scribbled out watered-down orchestra pieces assigning strings to clarinets/saxophones as an afterthought. Up until Holst (and notable march composers, Sousa, Fillmore and King) wrote for concert band most repertoire consisted of reductions/transcriptions originally scored for orchestras. Interestingly for Holtz and to his credit, he was a trombone player and a performing member of a Viennese band for seven years!
Fortunately for concert band enthusiasts, composers such as Hindemith, Schoenberg, Stravinsky, Persichetti, Husa, Grainger, and later, Corigliano, Milhaud, Reed, Nelson and de Meij (to name some biggies) took the idiom seriously and unleashed a force and sensation of wind band music that endures today and most certainly, will endure far into the future. v/r Ken
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2003-07-29 19:00
Ken wrote:
"...isn't that 2nd eefer part an alternate voice or double of one of the upper woodwinds, i.e. 2nd flute, 3rd flute or 2nd oboe?"
Actually, Ken it isn't. There are indeed two eefer parts. The (first?) flutes have cues for the first part the first clarinets have cues for the second part.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-07-29 20:55
Hi Ken,
Jack is correct about the eefer part. I often sit next to the Eb player and do add the 2nd Eb cue which, if you have the Eb on top, does not sound too bad. Way better than having a flute play the cue.
Hank
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Author: ken
Date: 2003-07-29 22:02
Thanks Jack and Hank for the clarification. The last time my band played the Holst First Suite we only had enough bodies for one E-flat ... so I never heard or noticed it before. It makes me wonder how many other band pieces I've repeatedly preformed where cues were played and I didn't even know it because people were checking their parts/instruments from the first read through and automatically covering them.
That exact situation happened to me with the Tichelli Blue Shades. There's a descending four-quarter note contra part cued in the tuba. My band's played that chart probably 50 times with the Tuba and I never knew it was the wrong voice until I heard a recording by North Texas with the contra. Big difference! v/r Ken
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-07-30 02:08
Hi Ken,
North Texas State and the Dallas Winds seem to be the hot groups for turning out accurate band literature (not that there are not terrific other college bands doing fine work).
I made a reference earlier in this post about the Holst Moorside Suite and the Dallas Winds' reading in the brass band setting (a very small group as well). Too bad we can't hear all band literature performed with excatly as the composer intended but I guess it is a combination of marketing and adjusting part coverage for teh possibility of cues.
I play in a CB that has 4 bassoons, 2 oboes, and a very complete low clarinet section in addition to a decent upper clarinets, flutes, and saxes. It is nice to hear the range of colors.
HRL
Post Edited (2003-07-30 02:12)
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Author: Ella
Date: 2003-07-30 16:48
I played the alto clarinet this year on the second suite, I'm normally not too crazy about alto but it really seemed to fit in the piece. There's a nice solo in the Intermezzo (sp?) for alto, it starts with the theme and on the 13th note dies away and then comes back for the second half of the theme and dies away again (if that makes any sense!). Anyway, I'm playing it again this summer on bass now and I still love it. It's a beautiful piece, it's more subtle than a lot of band literature nowadays. Enjoy!
Anyone who can hear screams, can also hear music.
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Author: theclarinetist
Date: 2003-07-30 23:22
I don't remember too much about the 1st suite, although I did play it my first year of college. I remember it was a lovely piece. Personally I prefer the Second Suite though.
Don
PS - I think Ron Nelson's stuff will live up to if not surpass the Holst quality test = )
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-07-30 23:53
Hi Don,
Having played many of the Nelson pieces, IMHO I can't quite agree with you on "I think Ron Nelson's stuff will live up to if not surpass the Holst quality test." While several of these works are outstanding and very difficult, I just don't come away after playing them and say "wow, was that really something and it will live forever in band literature." I am not saying anything negative about Nelson's work but feel that to place his compositions on the level of Holst might be a little bit much.
HRL
Post Edited (2003-07-31 02:16)
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Author: clarinetmama
Date: 2003-07-31 01:19
I just played this piece at band camp...adult camp at the Peace Gardens and played the eb clarinet. And indeed there are 2 eb parts. It divides about one third of the time on the Intermezzo. The eefers begin the piece in thirds and are the pulse of the band. I loved the challenge. We found that we often had to take the part down an octave as to not drown others out as it goes to a high e at times. Great piece. The solo clarinet has that lovely melody in the listesso section of the Intermezzo. Can't say enough great things about the piece. I would have liked to have been the solo Bb player, but alas I was the only one there who had ANY Eb experience.
Jean
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Author: ken
Date: 2003-07-31 18:00
Supporters and devotes of concert band literature owes an enormous debt of gratitude to foundational trailblazers such as Holst, Sousa, King, Fillmore, Edwin Franko Goldman, Nelson, Robert Russell Bennett, Grainger, Nelhybel, Reed, Grundman, Claude T. Smith, Camphouse, Holsinger and yes, even Richard Rogers who penned specialized band arrangements from his musicals and T.V. series commissions (Victory at Sea).
Some of today's new and young breed of concert band composers, Donald Grantham, Jack Stamp, Keith Gates, Frank Ticheli, Steve Mellilo and Brits, Philip Sparke and Martin Ellerby (plus MANY more) are but a handful of industry treasures composing/performing what are already recognized 20th-21st century standards. Any idiom of music well written and well performed is GOOD music and deserves to be played, recorded and remembered...after all, it's not called the performing arts for nothing. v/r Ken
Post Edited (2003-07-31 18:11)
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Author: Melissa
Date: 2003-08-01 01:55
is the Bb solo in the chaconne, intermezzo, or the march?... and is it really defined or is it just fitted in with everything else that is going on? I'm asking because I haven't noticed a solo in my recording or when the piece is played at band practice.
Melissa
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-08-01 03:12
In my opinion, the one of the best recordings of the Holst Suites are by the Academy of St Martin-in-the-Fields/Marriner ... beautifully performed.
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Author: clarinetmama
Date: 2003-08-01 04:11
The Bb has a solo in the Intermezzo where the piece goes into 4/4 time listesso tempo.
Jean
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