 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SVSorna05
Date: 2003-07-28 02:43
Hey there I have an old 40's Conn 424N that when i repadded it i noticed that alot of the screws were in bad shape ( heads starting to strip etc...) I was wonderin if there is anyway to have those replaced thanx
-Dain-
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Author: rehabcelebrity
Date: 2003-07-28 03:11
welll.........this has happened a few times with me....bec. i threw it across the room at Bach when he wouldnt listen to me...and well i bought new ones
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Author: Wes
Date: 2003-07-28 03:38
One can use a jeweler's saw to clean up and deepen the slots in the screw heads, thus making them be easier to remove later. Good luck.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-07-28 11:51
I don't even bother getting out the jewellers saw.
I use one of those really cheap "Eclipse Junior" saws with the wavy blades 6" long and 1/4" high. I have ground off the waves at the sides of the blade, and this leaves it a perfect width to clean up those slots in the heads of screws.
This blade is much more rigid than a jewellers saw blade, so it does not leave a convex shape at the bottom of the groove. This is important to greatly lessen the chance of the screw driver damaging the head in future.
Use a long handled screw driver and make sure it is sharp, such that the flat at the very tip is ground perfectly flat and with sharp edges, to limit future damage to the screws.
Post Edited (2003-07-28 11:55)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-07-28 13:54
I just raid my stock of old junk clarinet parts and find the replacement screw I need, but I realize that's not an option for everyone. Sometimes it takes time to find the right one, though --- there's quite a variety of length/diameter/thread combinations used in the clarinet world.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2003-07-28 14:22
Screws on C.G. Conn 424N are HEADLESS and they go as deep as you want them to. It's very easy to jam a key with this type of screw. That's why Conn used little locking screws to keep in place headless screws. Also it's very easy to strip a screw if you forget to loosen up the locking screw.
You can buy screws from Ferreestools
Vytas
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-07-28 23:28
Terrible things from a bigone era.
I just use Loctite 222 instead of missing screws.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-07-29 14:38
Gordon, that's great advice. Good 'ole 'Blue 222' is also very handy for keeping adjustment screws in position as well as preventing pivot screws from backing out with use.
Speaking of old traditional methods that are best forgotten: Once again I'll stand up on my soapbox and highly recommend using clear silicone glue (aka "RTV" or silicone sealant) to glue on pads, rather than nasty old obsolete concoctions such as amber resin glue, hot-melt adhesive, or dental cement. Call me crazy, but it works great if you give it a fair chance.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-07-29 16:11
But does it set in 5-10 seconds?
Can it be softened with heat to enable the pads to be adjsuted after it has set?
How easy is it to clean off any excess ooze invisibly?
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-07-29 18:32
Gordon, the beauty of the silicone glue is that it DOESN'T set in 5 seconds --- it takes minutes --- giving you plenty of time to seat the pad, put in a few other pads along the stack, and get them all seated together with respect to each other, thus generally eliminating the need to reseat them later. Cleaning off excess ooze is easy (oozey?) --- paper towel. And if it dries where you don't want it, like around the rim of the pad cup, you can just peel it off with a razor blade or screwdriver at any time. Try it!
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-07-29 21:39
Dave, sounds worth trying. By the way, I use nail polish on A key adjustment screws.
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-08-02 04:21
How do you get the stuff out when you need to replace a pad. Also, is this a hardware store item or something that must be ordered.
Really, I like hot glue gun glue, partly because I always seem to be going back days later and fooling with pads. Too bad you can't buy better skills at the hardware store.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-08-04 17:03
Jim,
Silicone glue/silicone sealant/RTV is available at any auto parts store, hardware store, departments store, etc. etc. To remove it, just peel/scrape it off with a screwdriver or knife. Other advantages: great low-temperature properties --- doesn't get brittle in cold weather, so no pads falling out after leaving your horn in the trunk of your car on a winter day; and if you're halfway careful you can even remove most or all of it from a removed pad and re-use the pad if you like. The only downside I've found using the stuff is that it releases acetic acid fumes for a few days while curing and this can tarnish solid nickel-silver (aka German silver) or silver-plated keys --- the solution is to keep the horn out of the case for a couple of days following overhaul, and maybe use some silver polish to re-clean the keys after the glue has stopped offgassing.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-08-04 23:14
Quite!
That makes it totally unsuitable for any responsible technician who does not want to damage the instrument cosmetically, and who wants to keep turn-around time to a minimum.
Have you considered that because the adhesive is used in a rather unexposed area, it will continue giving off these fumes long after you can no longer smell them.
It will be corroding the surface inside the key cup. How good is the adhesion then?
Perhaps it is use of this adhesive, either in cases or on the instrument, that is the cause of severe tarnish problems on some nickel plated Jupiter saxes, and Fox bassoons, not to mention sever pitting of silver plated Grassi flutes - a problem that went on for decades before Grassi discovered it was caused by a material used in construction of the case.
I have found getting old silicon glues out of key cups a real time waster. I expect to remove glue from key cup in 5 to 10 seconds.
Also, when I have installed a pad I expect it to be stable (in seconds), so I can get on with the next, not having to treat it with caution for a very long time lest it move.
Go for it, but not for me!
I believe there are some silicon adhesive formulations that do not give off ammonia or attack metals.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-08-05 14:01
Gordon,
You're correct on all counts, certainly from the perspective of a busy full-time repair tech who has to get instruments in and out the door rapidly --- and your comment about silicone glues that do not use acetic acid as a curative, is right on the money. I was writing from the standpoint of a part-timer/hobbyist, which probably would encompass the majority of readers of this BB --- for us I still believe that the silicone glue (even the readily-available form that gives off acetic acid fumes) is an excellent solution, with the proviso that the completed instrument must have plenty of time to offgass (days at least, and perhaps even weeks as you point out). And I've never personally seen any corrosion of the key cups from this process, although with your much greater experience possibly you have.
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