 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jez
Date: 2003-07-26 20:04
I bet it's like mine was; straight up and down parallel with the bore, with a, symmetrical, rounded or oval touch-piece close to the thumb-ring.
This would be perfect if I played with my thumb equally straight up and down and I could just pinch the end down, or if I played with my thumb at 90 degrees to the instrument and wanted to roll it upwards. Unfortunately I can't get my hand into either of these positions! The thumb tends to slope up to the hole at about 45 degrees so I want the contact-point to be above and to the right of the thumb-hole and as I have quite large hands I don't want the key too close to the hole as I can too easily touch it by mistake.
I've had it altered to fulfil these criteria so the touch-piece comes off the key to the right (as you look at it) and curves round the hole.
It looks more like the key on a bass-cl. or saxophone and feels much more comfortable.
It seems to me that NO thought has gone into the design of the usual key. It is just produced slavishly following tradition.
Another thing which occurs to me is that the keywork on ALL clarinets, including professional models, is designed so they can be played by a 9 year old beginner. No effort is made to accomodate those with larger (or even adult) hands.
Does anyone recommend other alterations which might prove useful? (I'm looking at the throat A next. Why is that in the middle?)
Thoughts?
jez
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-07-26 22:18
Clarinet design and modification and trial and error is an ongoing process. I've seen and read about lots of different innovations. Some ideas were good and took hold while others, for any number of reasons, fizzled. Much of what is standard today is traditional, both for looks and "...just because we've always done it that way." The clarinet has come a long way in a relatively short time but, even at that, longer than saxes have been around. I've seen some modifications based on saxophone keywork ideas that seem to work quite well - big ol' comfortable sax thumb rest adapted to clarinet, register key shaped more like what you describe and other keys shaped to accomodate individuals' needs or playing comfort. It seems that the present day clarinet design is an accumulation of ideas and averages and a bit of logic that, over the past four or five decades, seem to suit most (but certainly not All) "average" players. No one design is perfect and there have been a lot of changes, as a pictorial trip through any collection will readily show. The present mechanical arrangement of clarinet hardware is just that: the present state. Why change when you have a good thing going? I'm quite sure there will be more, however slow or radical, changes over the next few decades. People might then be wondering, as we do now, how those old fashioned things worked as well as they did.
The throat A key is probably like it is because the molds and forms are already set up and it works 'okay' that way and nobody has complained too much.
I've known several players who modified their personal instruments to suit themselves. They weren't interested in promoting their innovations, they just liked "having it my way".
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-07-26 22:20
Interesting comments, jez. Maybe clarinet players were meant to have average size hands. Reminds me of when I wanted to play an instrument and wanted trumpet but the "guy" said my mouth was all wrong.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-07-26 23:04
jez/ron b ...Many valid points.
I tend to think that clarinetists as a whole are a fairly conservative group and slow to accept change. The manufacturers know this, and thus the clarinet is relatively unchanged over the past few decades. The attitude of "why change something that is working" prevails. However the sad truth is that the clarinet needs to be updated.
Saxophones in comparison have changed dramatically. Many ergonomic changes and keywork improvement have now brought the instrument into the 21st century. Changes to the palm keys, octave key, sculpted keys for the spatulas and front high F, etc... etc.. (not to even mention the addition of keys to increase the range) have made the instrument more confortable to play without sacrificing technique.
There are some smaller clarinet manufacturers who are trying to gradually change some of the clumsy clarinet keywork and design but the clarinet community must accept these changes if they are to become standard practice by the "Big 4"...GBK
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2003-07-26 23:15
There is some movement in the direction of ergonomic keywork. The new LeBlanc Concerto II and Buffet Tosca (which I had a nice trial run at ClarinetFest) have an offset portion of the register key design and some other keywork design changes (if I remember correctly since I tried out so many horns). Some clarinets on the market do have different shaped throat A keys, and my own design has an A key which makes the G# - A transition much easier - at least for me. Everyone at some point becomes semi-proficient with the existing standard keywork and perhaps looks askance at those that want to change it - "it works perfectly well for me attitude". I see the tide shift of more ergonomic design on the horizon especially for young players who will choose the clarinet with the easiest to use keywork.
The Doctor
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-07-27 05:38
My old Pruefer Oehler system is my primary instrument, Mark.
I'm quite content with it and, while I can play Boehm system 'okay', have no desire to ever change permanently. I also have no desire to persuade others to take up the Oehler as neither system is ideal in every situation.
Maybe something will come along, as Doc suggests, that'll render Both of 'em obsolete 
- ron -
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-07-27 14:23
The pace of evolution may exceed the clarinet's capacity to change...
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-07-27 22:48
------ fear of change---- perplexes monarchs. Milton, Paradise Lost !! I worked in R&D, YES, great resistance to change of old practices! RE: register keys, I recall a ?Lawry? shaped R K design [somewhat similar to sax octave key touch designs] was offered by LeBlanc et al, I dont recall ever seeing an actual installation. Believe I have a copy of their patent. Will look! My philosophy today! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-07-28 00:15
Ergonomic keywork? Most Clarinets don't even have ergonomic thumbrests. The attitude of most suppliers seems to be, "if your thumb doesn't fit the instrument, that's too bad."
All hands are *not* the same size. Glovemakers offer many different sizes, but Bb Clarinets of the same fingering system fit the hands almost exactly the same, except for those that have adjustable thumbrests. Some players experience considerable pain because of their reluctance to drill extra holes in the Clarinet to move the thumbrest. Yikes! Many people turn theirs upside-down, effectively moving the thumbrest more than a centimeter. If that clunky change seems better, no improvement beyond that is even tried. Yet for some adventurous souls, their thumbrests alone cost more than some Clarinets.
Conservative? Well, maybe, but I think most Clarinet players are more like sheep. "I don't know why, but it's always been that way, so it must be good." Hogwash. (Or, if you prefer, "poppycock" or "balderdash." Do keep an open mind.)
Regards,
John
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-07-28 14:09
The Mazzeo clarinet had a register key that curved around the thumb hole, and I think Steve Fox and perhaps Rossi make them that way, too. It's an easy modification for a competent repair shop to make. The only possible argument against it would be that your thumb could brush against the extension.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: NickW
Date: 2003-07-28 14:30
For me the speaker key is actually one of the least annoying things about clarinet keywork. The bits I have most trouble with (still, after 32 years of playing) are the in-line keys between 2nd and 3rd fingers on each hand. My fingers aren't particularly fat but they touch these little beggars even when lightly resting on the finger holes. If I press a bit, my fingers spread and the damn things open. The left hand one I have often clamped shut (I never use it anyway) but the right one I use. I would much prefer it slightly offset so it didn't get in the way (as on a sax).
Right hand little finger keys I've always found to be a pain as well. They're never in the right place. Bottom E involves an awkward stretch I can do without. If the lower 2 keys were moved to where the top ones were (or nearly so) with the top ones still above them then I reckon that should be about right. And what's wrong with rollers?
I agree about thumbrests as well. I always end up moving them.
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Author: graham
Date: 2003-07-28 14:30
I had to delve into memory to work this one out, and then recalled that the speaker key was positioned to allow the entire hand to rock the thumb and forefinger simultaneously onto the A and speaker keys to produce the B flat. But, as said above, you need the thumb to be at 90 degrees for that to work well (or actually between 90 and 45 since I think the fingers tend to claw downwards as you roll, slightly). It seems my thumb is roughly where it was when I was shown that point, i.e. at about 90 degrees, so perhaps it is a case of still fingering like an 11 year old! But apart from a straightforward pincer movement for the b flat I cannot readily imagine an alternative. If the A key was also swept to the right, then one's hand would be reaching around the bulk of the tube, which sounds uncomfortable to me. If it was set to the left then you would have an asymmetrical roll onto the B flat. This sounds uncomfortable. Perhaps its because I only have short fingers, but i cannot think of any thing better than it already is. Now, a G sharp key that sits too high and interuppts my rolling motion; that's what I really don't like!
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