 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SVSorna05
Date: 2003-07-26 00:02
Hey there I'm just curious as to whether the 1958 Evette and Shaeffer k Series had undercut tone holes thanx
-Dain-
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-07-26 00:04
No idea but they were probably made by Schreiber and they undercut on some models. Have a look and see.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-07-26 01:37
The 1958?
K series Evette and Schaeffers were probably the intermediate design...
Some (not all) of the Evette and Schaeffer Master models had undercut toneholes.
Not that this is the exclusive determing factor of a nice sounding horn...
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2003-07-27 01:07
Dain, you are aware that this subject has been much discussed? There was a pretty thorough discussion only a few weeks ago. If you are interested, be sure to do some research. And as Mark and Synonymous Botch have indicated, the horns vary in detail. Be careful to say precisely what you mean when you speak of them; there were different models.
I do believe that the consensus is that the "K" series were the Master Model, right Synonymous? And that the Master Model were definitely Buffet built, and that some them were almost R-13's.
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2003-07-27 03:46
Wayne,
I'm afraid it's not that simple. There are:
Evette & Schaeffer K-series clarinets that are not master models
Evette & Schaeffer K-series Master Models
Evette D-series Master Models and
Evette D-series that are not master models.
I know this for a fact because I have at least one of each.
As far as the E&S K-series master models are concerned, according to Buffet advertising literature from the 60's, the E&S was a high-end intermediate instrument made in the main factory in Paris. E&S instruments that inspectors decided had turned out particularly well were designated "Master Models" and marked accordingly.
There is a block of serial numbers in the K-series that begins in the 3,000's or 4,000's and runs into the 9,000's or 10,000's where all the instruments appear to have been designated master models. (I'm going from memory now. There has been discussion in the past attempting to determine the approximate lower and upper limits but I forget the detail.) Since these instruments were made in the 50's, the "Master Model" designation may have had a different significance at that time -- e.g., it may have identified the instruments as having the Buffet cylindrical "Master Bore" instead of the polycylindrical bore Buffet introduced on its R13's around that time. (This is just speculation on my part, however.)
Mark,
I don't think that Buffet acquired Schreiber until much later than you suggest -- i.e., not until the mid 70's. While it did transfer manufacture of the Evette model there around 1978, according to Buffet, the higher-end Evette & Schaeffers were all made in France at the main Buffet factory.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2003-07-27 16:03
LOL
Thanks, Jack.
I sincerely thought I could say one clear thing about these horns, without oversimplifying. Your details about the Kseries, I hadn't heard.
I can add some notes about the models from one of the catalogues, I think from the early 1950's:
(this is a catalogue that talks about the Master Bore, and has no mention of Caree or Polycylindrical, etc. By the way, this catalogue uses 'master' somewhat sloppily. In some places the main clarinet is referred to as the R-13 Master Bore Buffet, in others it is the R-13 Master Model Buffet. This sort of agrees with your speculation that 'Master' in Master Model originally meant 'Master Bore'.)
Evette & Schaeffer Master Model ME-13 made in Mantes, same as Buffet
$187.50
Evette & Schaeffer E-13 made in LaCouture
$165.00
Evette, sponsored by Buffet E-10
$135.00
Evette 'Perma-Dur', sponsored by Buffet B-10
$125.00
(Interesting, I have just found something in this catalogue I've never noticed before. It refers to "undercut phrasing" and "hand-phrasing" with respect to the E-13 and E-10. I know this is only a catalogue, and the marketing in it may never have been precisely true, but I enjoy passing these tidbits on.)
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2003-07-27 18:21
What is particularly interesting to me about these quotes (which have been discussed before, BTW) is that were probably written by someone who either misunderstood the technical terminology or, perhaps having only heard the term without seeing it written, misinterpreted it. As perhaps you are already aware since you raised the point, the "phrasing" in "undercut phrasing" and "hand phrasing" is almost certainly a misspelling of "fraising" -- which is pretty much synonymous with "undercutting."
This may be an answer to Dain's original question.
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2003-07-27 23:15
Yes, Jack. And other uses of 'phrasing', ie fraising, in the catalogue imply that all the models, high to low, were undercut. And that is certainly untrue.
I've never seen much discussion of these quotes. I will search harder, but do you have any suggestions for keywords or links to these discussions?
Thanks,
WT
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2003-07-27 23:20
Never mind my last question.
I have searched on 'Buffet Catalogue and Catalog' and there is enough info to keep me busy for weeks!!
WT
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