 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-07-19 00:06
I've wanted to learn to double on sax for a while now, but my attempts at alto were pretty pitiful and my tenor playing scared small children and animals. I could barely get out anything below G4. Now, logically, one would think I'd sound even worse on bari, but . . .
I'm borrowing a bari sax this weekend, and I was just playing it a little (OKeh, a lot  ), and I sound good on it! Has anyone else had this experience, specifically the part about sounding awful on the other members of the sax family?
He probably wasn't nearly as bad on the other saxes as I am, but I'm tempted to dub this the "Harry Carney experience!"
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Author: Burt
Date: 2003-07-19 00:17
I double on bari, also. The bari sax is a much more mellow sounding instrument than the alto or even the tenor, so the same bad notes might not sound as bad. I found that I could not play the bari like a clarinet (I tried playing the alto and tenor like a clarinet), so it forced me into a completely different embochure, and this help my alto and tenor playing. It took me a long time to get below D below the staff (D4)
On the bari, I have to take my lower lip nearly off the reed (OK, so I'm exaggerating), relying on the neckstrap and thumb to keep the mouthpiece in place. But this eventually helped me on alto and tenor. So if you can't stand your playing on alto and tenor, try again after playing bari for a few months.
If you can't get below G4 on an alto or tenor, you may have a leak. One place to check is that the lower octave key hole (the one on the body of the sax) closes completely.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-07-19 00:20
I just had my first salient lesson on Bari, and found a real surprise in the proper release of the reed to start a note.
When playing clarinet, or Alto spaz-o-fon, I articulate the reed with the tip of my tongue at the tip of the reed.
With Bari, the reed should never really stop vibrating (according to my teacher, who is an experienced player and instructor)... this is accomplished by using the underside of the tongue against the tip of the reed.
This made for a surprisingly smoother feel, and helped the lowest notes
"speak" more readily.
Be prepared for a stiff neck, if you play more than 20 minutes at a stretch.
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-07-19 01:04
Burt -
I think the sheer size of the mpc is helping me . . . There's no way you can't be open enough on bari! I think I was much too tense on alto and tenor, and yes, I try to play the alto a little too much like a clarinet.
Hopefully I will find another bari I can borrow after I have to return this one so I won't fall out of practice. I love the sound! After about an hour, it was playing like butter . . . ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif) I think your suggestion about going back to the other saxes after a while is a good one, too.
SB -
I was having a little trouble with attacks and releases at first, too. I'm getting a little better at them, but I will definitely try the "reed always vibrating" technique you mentioned.
More than 20 minutes? Uh-oh . . . I was playing for about 3 hours with short breaks every half hour . . . ![[whoa]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie10.gif)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-07-19 02:37
Benni,
Is you tenor in good repair? Not being able to play below G4 might be a pad not seating or the register key adjustment out of whack.
HRL
PS Love the bari!
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-07-19 02:55
For what it's worth: playing a bari sax greatly assisted my playing on the alto (I was never very good on tenor, for whatever reason, same as alto Clarinet). The bari was always enjoyable to play after getting the hang of it.
My preference was a traditional wide bari mouthpiece to the somewhat popular "torpedo" style. I generally played a bari sax on a floor stand but never used a peg when playing bass Clarinet.
Regards,
John
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-07-19 03:49
Hank -
I don't own a tenor (or an alto, for that matter), it was my teacher's. It was in good shape when I played it, however. So was the alto. I just wasn't very good at staying in the lower octave! I don't know how many times I heard "Make sure your thumb is not on the octave key!" to which I replied, "but it's not!" hehe
John -
Good to know that there might be hope for my dreadful alto playing!
I believe the mpc I'm using is a traditional wide one (it's a plastic Yamaha with the 5C facing, in other words, whatever was in the case that didn't look too nasty). I've been playing with a neckstrap either sitting or standing, but I'm still trying to figure out the best way to sit down and see the music at the same time! The way I've found so far is to sit to the extreme right edge of the chair . . . Of course, this could have something to do with the way I'm putting the mpc and neck on (I'm not good at this no matter what type of sax). When I was trying out tenor, my teacher commented that I looked like I was trying to be Lester Young. ![[happy]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley12.gif) I've been having a bit more luck finding a comfortable position on the bari, however.
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Author: chicagoclar
Date: 2003-07-19 08:57
When I played bari, I just put my right foot down on the ground sideways and put the bottom of the instrument on my foot. This just happened to be a good possition for me. I didn't have to use a neckstrap or anything and it was easy to move around as well as easy to see the music. Unfortunately, I doubt you are as short as me. I found with the saxes that alto was incredibly easy, bari was pretty easy, and tenor was difficult. Unfortunately that's what I ended up playing in our jazz bands in college (we had too many alto players and 2 amazing bari players -1 in each jazz band) Oh well, it wasn't so bad after a while.
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Author: William
Date: 2003-07-19 16:24
All good advice. I only have two suggestions:
1) when playing, be certain to put enough mpc in your mouth. Clarinetists switching to sax often try to emulate the "sparse" amount of beak in the mouth on the sax mpc. Simply try putting "more" sax beak in your mouth. Mpc???--I use a Roussou "Jazz" model that really rocks (with a Harrison lig)
2) to avoid the "pain in the neck" syndrome, try using a bari stand. The weight of the instrument is totally supported by an attachment to the bell which is then hooked to a floor stand. The result, pain free bari sax!!
IMHO, bari sax is the most "fun" sax to play. Hope you find so too. (ok, so they don't teach good grammer in music school)
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-07-19 20:50
Chicagoclar - I'm about 5'6", so I don't think the bari is touching the ground anytime soon . . . hehe
William - I'm putting a little bit over 1/2" of mpc in my mouth. Is that good? I think I'll hold off on the consideration of a stand until I can be assured that I'll have another bari coming along shortly. I've been having *so* much fun playing bari!
--------
I got all the way down to low A today!
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Author: Webby
Date: 2003-07-20 02:42
Get a harness! Easier than a stand. BTW, the length on Neotech harness refers to your height, not the length of the instrument, so unless you truly are tall, get a regular one. I had a long harness, thinking big instrument, but it was way too long! There's much less room to pull it up, too, and it really wasn't helping as much as it could have been. I bought a shorter one recently, and it made things a lot easier.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2003-07-20 02:52
Doubling bari is a great move for several reasons:
1 - Everyone should have access to a bass instrument of some sort if they are interested in impromptu musicmaking
2 - It really helps to erase any ideas you might have had at first about the similarities between clarinet and saxophone. If you've been blowing a bari, you are much more in 'sax' mode when you approach alto or tenor
3 - Many old charts with clarinet lead are for clarinet-alto-alto-tenor-tenor. Who better to play the clarinet lead than the unoccupied bari player?
4 - Are these things fun or what? Yee-haw!
Allen Cole
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-07-20 04:35
Allen -
Reasons 3 and 4 were my main ones for giving the bari a try!
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I've found it a lot easier to articulate and produce a variety of attacks on the bari, as well . . . So, it's indirectly helping my clarinet playing by pointing out what needs improvement there!
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