 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-07-03 23:13
Attachment: clarinet-oddity.jpg (14k)
This image was sent to me (by whom is irrelevant) ... it is a clarinet - not an oboe ... obviously some sort of prototype model. Can anyone identify it for me?
thanks, diz, Sydney
p.s. Mark Charette - thanks for your efforts thus far on this, too, it baffled me.
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Author: jez
Date: 2003-07-03 23:41
I've heard of a clarinet being modified for playing by someone who had lost the use of some fingers on one hand. I'm not sure how it could work, but wonder if this might be a possibility????????
jez
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-07-04 01:18
jez, I think you broke the code. I'd be willing to wager a (very) small amount of money that this thing was built for someone who had little if any use of fingers on the left hand.
Regards,
John
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-07-04 05:25
Well, Diz, we can guess all we want and it would be nice to have more images from different angles. But, with the only photo you have, at least so far, it appears to me to be a McIntyre, modified for someone with some left hand digital motion limitation(s).
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2003-07-04 07:07
I concur with Ron B, definately a McIntyre with mods.
jbutler
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-07-04 16:19
Since at least some of J B's acquaintance with McIntyres came from his work on mine, I'll chime in here. Yes, the front-located tone holes for G#, A, A#/Bb, B nat. and C are consistent with McI, but somewhere-somehow I recall another such design, without McI's towering actuating structure. The knuckle-actuated bar looks like a home-made design. It also looks like a test-model, perhaps old enough to be when patent models were required/desireable [1920's??]. If I can find my copies of O E Christensen's patents, will research them, have never seen a working model made from them!! Others. also. Will also reread Debbi Reeves write-up of the Gomez [1850's!!] cl in the recent "The Clarinet" , a major many-keyed "regretfully lost" development. Interesting, help, Al Rice, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Barrie Marshall
Date: 2003-07-04 23:35
I dont know if this is of any use but I remember seeing something about a clarinet designed fo players who where on horseback who could only play with one hand, it sounds like a joke but it was true with an illustration.
Post Edited (2003-07-04 23:38)
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-07-05 04:57
Fascinating looking pic. Mostly, I am posting so that I won't miss Don's next post in this thread.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-07-05 15:05
Jim, I'm abashed!, you read me rite, I cant stop talking/writing! [Old age is to blame!]. Eureka, I did find my McIntyre and Christensen patents , gave them a quick glance and concluded McI [1959 and 62] "gradually" moved from linkages to the trill keys [like Mazzeo's designs], then to the front-located series of toneholes and then [prob] had severe actuation problems, ask J B about them! A close study of US 3,015,981 might reveal other mechanism for actuation, such as the "bar". Chr's pats only seem to do some "inter-linking" of rings and keys of the usual 17+/6+ clarinet. Others prob. "tinkered" with key configurations with less success, not recorded anywhere!! I've thot of some, no action tho! HELP, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2003-07-05 15:14
On second inspection I may have posted too hastily.
One aspect does puzzle me a bit. Looking carefully there is a key cup between the two bars fo the elongated extension. I do not see a touchpiece to activate this. Isn't this the Eb/Bb of the upper joint? Perhaps someone with a better monitor can tell, but I can not. Secondly, if this is the Eb/Bb does this not look more like metal construction rather than wood. The way the tone hole projects from the body seems to indicate that. I do not know of a McIntrye made of metal (brass or nickel) unless it was copied by another maker.
jbutler
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-07-05 18:03
TKS, John, for inducing me to take another, closer look at this beast! I now see the [your] small ?ring-attached? pad AND the OLD-style side-located, raised, register pad/key! So [will now] bet that this is a garage-mechanic's-revised-improved? cl [orig. from earlier than 1920!] The [your] small pad could enable a fork Eb/Bb [like an F B] by a "half-hole" touch, I have similars on the top rings of a couple of Alberts! Like I was guessing at earlier, locating the two higher trill/key pad holes in front ala McI doesn't seem revolutionary, operating them is something else! All in all, Diz and J B, IMHO, realistic identification requires the horn to be in the hands of a skilled clar-mechanic. I'll bet a museum [Fiske, Shrine S D et al] would like to have it, would be interesting to see how they might describe it!! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-07-06 05:03
First, Geo, thanks for the interesting links. I take back everything I said a few months ago about flute makers doing all the experiments.
Don, I was unclear. What I hoped to imply was that I was eagerly looking forward to your next posting. If you read this list long enough, you know that anyone can get to patents online. However, you are one of the few who consistently does the research and shares what you learn. My placeholder post was fully rewarded. I was not even sure from looking at the picture which end was up. You provided valuable details on the keys. Actually, all of the posts have been good.
If Mark could have us opt in for all posts by a particular person, you would be on my short list.
cheers
jim
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-07-06 14:02
Many TKS, Geo, for settleing [sp?] this momentous question, with better recall than I could achieve. It was prob. by a too-brief visit to N M M [I still like the "Shrine" name] or via Dr. Reeve's ICA articles that vaguely stirred my memory. We owe considerable TKS to N M M for preserving Mazzeo's, Selmer-licensed, [and Conn's, and others!] contributions to OUR clarinet-development history, as well as for the "much more"! . I believe a former BB poster, [C Q] is now there, am I correct?? I'm glad that among us, we could draw the parallels with the McIntyre's efforts [licensed to LeBlanc?] to {ALSO} produce a good "Pinch Bb" and then further develop NEW cl "systems". It appears to me that time-wise they were contemporaries, likely competitors, as their patents [issued] in the late 1950's-mid '60's, applications being filed as early as 1954. Also, perhaps Christensen's efforts [ his pat. appls. being filed as early as 1938] lost out in this competition? I'm fascinated [one of a few?] by all of this R&D activity, likely factual info may "rest" in the US Patent Office "case" "file-wrappers", would take hours to read!!! Goin' on at length agin, aint I, Mark! Tks for kind words, Jim, I love this funny business! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-07-06 15:55
Is it my imagineation, or is the body of the instrument metal? It seems much to narrow to be wood. Since the holes were not drilled, obviously the intent was to develop the key mechanizm and test whether the pads would lift enough, if the keys were comfortable, etc.
Assuming that I am right, was it common to use a metal test platform rather than wood? I think it would be easier to move posts. I assume that anything developed on metal could be transferred to a wood instrument simply by shortening the posts. All of the other geometry would stay the same -- as long as you remembered to pad the undersides of the key touches so that the amount of travel would be the same as if a thicker wood body had been used
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Author: deepriver27
Date: 2003-07-08 02:48
It looks like that amount of leverage would put enormous strain on any body - wood or metal.
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