 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-07-04 02:28
It seems for those of us hankering to purchase an "early" clarinet (Chalumeaux) the following link ... is helpful, from a very well known and respect European maker (just click on instruments --- reed and scroll down to page). I'm not sure what Euros mean in US$ (or Aussie for that matter) but I don't think they're outrageously expensive - perfect for er, something (Vivaldi's concerto for diverse instruments springs to mind).
http://www.moeckmusic.de/english/instrumentenbau.htm
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-07-04 02:51
Moeck is a well-known German builder of woodwinds, especially recorders and old-style transcerse flutes. I have a Moeck recorder, and it is not the best, but quite fine.
I am still waiting to see any evidence of a genuine ancient Chalumeau.
Regards,
John
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2003-07-04 08:55
JMcAulay wrote: "I am still waiting to see any evidence of a genuine ancient Chalumeau"
There's a tenor chalumeau by Denner at the Munich museum. And music writte for chalumeau by Gluck, Fux, Hoffmeister, Vivaldi, Telemann, Graupner and others. What more evidence do you need?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-07-04 15:06
I am, and I'm sure many others are, looking forward to the publishing of two "old clarinet" books by Al Rice of Claremont Univ. - Fiske Museum fame, and their availability from Gary Van Cott's "bookstore" . OK?. Mark? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2003-07-06 07:46
JMcAulay wrote: "I am still waiting to see any evidence of a genuine ancient Chalumeau"
Come on John- both Diz and I are waiting for your argument on why you don't believe in the chalumeau??!
Don- Al Rice's book on Baroque clarinet is already published in hardback by Cambridge University Press. I believe his next book will be published very soon, along with a new paperback version of the 1st book. I'm looking forward to them too!
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-07-08 05:05
Sorry, folks, I've been away for a few days.
Believe in the Chalumeau? Well, that isn't the point. I just haven't seen one, or even a reputable picture of one. I am aware of Chalumeau music, but I have been unaware of any genuine Denner Chalumeau in the Munich museum. I will certainly check it out when next I'm there. Does anyone know of an available illustration of this marvel? Anyone know of any others?
Regards,
John
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-07-08 19:10
Alphie -
The French page you linked to is full of fascinating instruments, but you should only look at it for the pictures. Al Rice has warned on the Early Clarinet board that the information there is not to be trusted.
Many of the links on the home page are obsolete, but you can get to many more pictures from http://jerselmer.free.fr/clarib/claribole.html.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-07-08 20:08
TKS, Ken, I had lost this fine resource via 'net problems, back again. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2003-07-08 22:04
Ken, I know this page is not to be trusted for correct information but the fifth Denner picture on the page I sent is the one kept at the museum in Brussels, also the same picture as published in Rendall plate 1.
Alphie
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Author: jez
Date: 2003-07-09 00:06
Alphie
Surely all those pictures are clarinets.
The chalumeau doesn't have the same flared bell.
The Munich Denner chalumeau is pictured in 'The Cambridge Companion to the Clarinet'
Ken's link starts with chalumeaux.
Post Edited (2003-07-09 00:10)
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-07-09 05:16
1. Alphie's link looks like all Clarinets.
2. Rendall plate 1 shows all Clarinets.
3. Ken Shaw's link offers pictures either of recently-built Chalumeaux or ones which have been stunningly preserved. All appear to be virtually new.
4. I will look at the Cambridge Companion.
Thanks for the info, jez.
Regards,
John
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2003-07-09 08:09
Sorry, forgot we were talking chalumeaux and not baroque clarinets. Back to Rendall plate 1b: Klenig, Stockholm is definately a well preserved chalumeaux that I've touched with my own hands. The Denners showed on this link I can't identify myself but they have the typical enormous window at the mouthpiece so they look autentic. Don't believe the datings however.
http://jerselmer.free.fr/clarib/achrenais1/page.html
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Author: clarinetqween
Date: 2003-07-09 16:44
Here at the National Music Museum we have many old clarinets. The oldest known clarinet that I know of here at our museum is from ca 1765. I believe there is one before this but I am not entirely positive.
1765- made by G. Miller
1785- Augustin Grenser
there are others but I do not want to spent lots of time listing them all. Enjoy and good luck to you on your search!
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Author: clarinetqween
Date: 2003-07-09 16:46
Just so you know that Grenser clarinet is the earliest surviving clarinet by grenser. Just htought you would like to know!
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Author: clarinetqween
Date: 2003-07-09 16:49
We also Have a Chalumeau here, 2 keys. Made by Moeck. No Idea on Date..... we also have quite a few Denner Replications- that Brian Ackerman from London......
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-07-09 17:33
Alphie: It's easy to become confused as to what's what, as Rendall identifies the Klenig as a Clarinet, not a Chalumeau. I'd rather believe an eye-witness.
Rendall also identifies it as "2 keys." The obvious one is the A key, but what's the other? (I had presumed it to be a register key.) Of course, perhaps again Rendall is mistaken, and it has only one key. Do you recall?
Regards,
John
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2003-07-09 19:05
John, All chalumeau have two keys but no overblowing. That's the main difference between a clarinet and a chalumeau by definition. The thumb key has only one funktion, as a Bb key or F depending on what size you're playing.
To make it a clarinet, someone (Denner?) moved this tone hole and placed it further up towards the mouthpiece and made it smaller to give it an overblowing funktion. The bell was also flared to stabilize clarion C, the lowest note in the clarion register of the earliest baroque clarinets.
With this new instrument you had the range of both the tenor, alto and soprano chalumeau(s), as well as one more octave on top of that in one instrument. The sound timbre of this earliest clarinet gave gave it the name from Italian: clarino=trumpet, clarinette=small trumpet.
Again, only for the pictures, compare the pictures of the chalumeau and the early baroque clarinets of these two links. Specially the beautiful colour pictures of the Denners
http://jerselmer.free.fr/clarib/bclbaroc/page.html
http://jerselmer.free.fr/clarib/achrenais1/page.html
Alphie
Post Edited (2003-07-09 19:31)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-07-09 22:43
TKS to all for what amounts to a "Dissertation" on our earliest horns. I've seen a few of these and a review of terminology is very welcome. Also, welcome back, ClQueen, its been too long, please say hello to Dr Reeves for me. Hope to revisit N M M. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-07-10 14:04
Please read the 1797 Clarionet thread above/below! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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