 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2003-06-30 12:46
I am curious to know who is on the clarinet faculty at Yale, and was also wondering about the reputation of the music school. It is in New York right? City, or state? I have heard that David Schiffrin is on the faculty there, but if this isn't true can anyone tell me where he does teach? Thanks
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-06-30 13:20
Aussie Nick wrote:
> I am curious to know who is on the clarinet faculty at Yale,
> and was also wondering about the reputation of the music
> school.
And the reason you haven't visited http://www.yale.edu is ???
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2003-06-30 13:25
It's in New Haven, Connecticut, which is (I believe) within reasonable driving distance from NYC (can our New Yorkers verify?).o
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: RM
Date: 2003-06-30 13:58
Yale is located in New Haven, an hour and a half drive from NY. Shifrin is a very good teacher, but basically the only reason to go there. The Yale music school is one of the most disorganized places I've seen. The Dean has it running almost like a dictatorship. Plus, most of the students can barely play their instruments, something to keep in mind. If you really want to have Shifrin as your teacher audition at Yale, but be forewarned, The Yale School of Music really s**ks.
RM
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Author: msloss
Date: 2003-06-30 15:01
Strong words. Did you go there? I've got colleagues, friends and family that attended the music school there. I wouldn't characterize any of them as able to "barely play their instruments" -- they all seem to be making decent livings as professional musicians.
Maybe Meighan Stoops or one of the other Yale alums on the BBoard could offer some insights into Mr. Schifrin and the program through slightly less yellow-colored lenses.
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Author: RM
Date: 2003-06-30 16:26
I did attend the school of music, and yes there are SOME very good players there. Most people that have attended the music school most recenty will agree with me.msloss wrote:
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Author: Mr.Clarinetboy
Date: 2003-07-01 00:22
Yale is in New Haven, CT and the school of music has a truly world class faculty. If you go there to study clarinet, your teacher is David Shifrin. It is close to New York, and together with Juilliard and the Manhattan School, forms a trilogy of high-class east coast Conservatories. Indeed, many of the students at Yale have gone there for graduate work after finishng one of the New York Schools. Note that the the music school at Yale is for graduates only, so you can't go there for your first degree. I would say the quality of students range from firmly competent (they can play a concerto well and with no memory slips or problems, etc.) to soloist quality. In my experience, it was impressively even in level thoughout the instruments and within the studios. In other words, there are no bottom players in the studios. That is extremely rare in music schools that everyone in your studio can rip the Nielsen concerto. Now the bad things: The music building is historic, old, and characterful, but it needs a renovation. It gets hot in the summer. The clarinet studio will crack your clarinet if you store it there in winter because it gets hot and then rapidly cold again. The good news is that the school just got a $14,000,000 (yes that's correct) donation from a school of music alumnus for the renovation. I think that's scheduled to happen next year. The other thing is the orchestra has its ups and downs. It totally depends on who the guest conductor is. If the orchestra is inspired by a good conductor, it rocks. If not ('cuz we all know a high percentage of conductors suck) the orchestra is apathetic and undisciplined. For some (good) reason, the Yale Philharmonia has no tolerance for conductors it doesn't like. One more bad thing, by the way, is the concert hall. It's ornate and beautiful to look at, but it's so loud and boomy that it sounds like a gothic cathedral. It's hard to hear your collegues sometimes. I hope that info helps, Aussie Nick
NCC
Post Edited (2003-07-01 00:29)
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2003-07-01 00:25
Mark, because my computer is resetting itself every 5 mins or less, I am lucky it is allowing me to read the replies to this post. Also, I wanted comments from people with first hand experience, and most universities seem to speak very highly of themselves on websites. Didn't mean to put anyone out by asking. :/
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-07-01 00:30
The point being that the faculty and location are easily accessable on the Internet; you asked both those questions along with a reasonable one.
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Author: Stoops
Date: 2003-07-01 03:57
Plus, most of the students can barely play their instruments, something to keep in mind
I did attend the school of music, and yes there are SOME very good players there. Most people that have attended the music school most recenty will agree with me.
-RM
I went to Yale for my MM and AD (98 and 99) and didn't have an experience like RM's. Just curious RM, when were you there? Anyways, I'd say that the school has a remarkable faculty, specifically for the study of chamber/solo music. I found most of the studios there exemplary. Personally, I went for the express purpose of studying with David Shifrin. I'd also say that MOST of the students (at least when I was there) could play the HELL out of their instruments.
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2003-07-01 08:32
Thanks everyone. When you say New Haven, Connecticut is within driving distance of NY, are you talking about the city or state? Not that it matters I guess. I really like David as a player and one of my teachers suggested that I start considering where and who I want to study with at graduate level. I'm assuming it's really difficult to get in?
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2003-07-01 11:16
Mark, can't you just let him ask his question?! If everything were down to research, your clarinet board would have no reason to exist. However, it exists because OPINIONS do. Not trying to tell you how to run your forums, just hoping the rules don't choke the REASON.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-07-01 12:04
Morrigan wrote:
> However, it exists because OPINIONS do.
So, in your opinion, where is Yale located? How far is it from NYC? Who's on the faculty there?
Personally, I think checking the Yale site and consulting a map is a hell of a lot better than asking "opinions" of people.
If something is objective - look the information up. Do some homework. Don't clutter the Forum with such easily answered questions.
But - if you can't find the information - ask here where to find it. It's better if you learn how to do really, really basic research.
If it's a subjective subject (like part of the above question), then perhaps some opinions and experiences count.
There's way more noise than needs be when it comes to easily found factual information.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2003-07-01 13:24
So you're saying your forum is useless? All information people need is located elsewhere, not here?
You think we all come here because we're stupid, unopinionated, and can't research?
In case you missed it, AussieNick was having problems with his computer and so couldn't research it for himself.
Besides, why do a search, and filter the information yourself when you could come on here and find some hardcore primary evidence as to who is in the faculty, how far Yale is, etc.
Why are you so against people getting easy information? I mean, what does the internet exist for? Some people may actually be quite happy to answer simple 'easy' questions and help people out.
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2003-07-01 14:37
Hear the one about the boss who is so impressed with his new accountant -- he's set up so many new tax shelters and offshore trust companies that he's saved countless millions -- that he asks the new guy, "Where'd you learn all this?"
"Yale," says the accountant.
"What's your name, son?" asks the boss.
"Yim Yohnson."
![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-07-01 15:31
Morrigan wrote:
> Besides, why do a search, and filter the information yourself
> when you could come on here and find some hardcore primary
> evidence as to who is in the faculty, how far Yale is, etc.
Ah ... that's "secondary" at best, Morrigan. The Yale University and an atlas or map would be "primary".
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-07-01 16:54
"I always liked their locks ..." said GBK
How about their Bagels?
Bob A
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Author: Joseph Brenner, Jr.
Date: 2003-07-01 17:27
New Haven, Conn. is within pretty easy driving distance of New York City (and southeastearn New York.) The state of New York is big, so New Haven is not within easy driving distance of Buffalo (which is in northwest New York.) People from around the New York city area, often refer to "New York " when they mean "New York City" and to "New York state" when they mean the whole state or the whole state minus New York city.
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Author: Mike Blinn
Date: 2003-07-01 20:11
Yale is located downtown New Haven, Connecticut, USA. Connecticut is one of the states immediately east of New York State (and New york City).
Connecticut is a very small state, but a very rich and beautiful area of our country.
New Haven is 1 1/2 to 2 hours away from New York City by car. It's all extremely busy highway, but rail transportation between the two cities is excellent.
Michael Blinn
Middletown, Connecticut
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Author: Mohammeddisto
Date: 2003-07-02 00:24
No, it's not that hard to get into Yale.
It's in the same league as most state schools like SUNY Potsdam, University of Utah, and Ohio University. If you can get into those types of schools, you shouldn't have a problem with Yale.
If you want something more competitive, try Northwestern, Eastman, New England Conservatory, Curtis, etc.
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Author: Brandon
Date: 2003-07-02 04:43
MoMohammeddisto wrote:
> No, it's not that hard to get into Yale.
>
> It's in the same league as most state schools like SUNY
> Potsdam, University of Utah, and Ohio University. If you can
> get into those types of schools, you shouldn't have a problem
> with Yale.
>
Yikes! Yale is one of the toughest schools to get into in America! To classify it at the same level as a state school is absurd. Sorry, but I am sure that as a clarinetist, you still have to have about the same academic standing as others who are seeking admission. Yale is usually among the top 5 or so in most school rankings to get into.
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Author: Stoops
Date: 2003-07-02 14:28
"Stoops - you want some of the spotlight do ya?"
Uh.....sure.....only if you're shining it Prima.
First let me clarify a couple things-I'm assuming Nick wants to go the the graduate Yale School of Music. That's the only way he'd be able to study with David Shifrin. One does NOT have to meet the academically high standards of the undergraduate "College."
"It's in the same league as most state schools like SUNY Potsdam, University of Utah, and Ohio University"
"If you want something more competitive, try Northwestern, Eastman, New England Conservatory, Curtis, etc."
I have to disagree. May I ask what you're basing that on? When I was auditioning for graduate schools I felt very lucky to get into Yale. I knew I had always wanted to study with Shifrin. For me Eastman and NEC were my "back-ups" and I got in to both. The number of cl students accepted at Yale was much fewer. I went to Northwestern too (for my Bachelor's) and can absolutely tell you first hand that it did not match my Yale experience in any aspect. It certainly wasn't more competitive.
Also, there were quite a few students who came from Curtis TO Yale.
Stoops
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Author: ginny
Date: 2003-07-02 15:36
They sound interesting for my kid, how are they in physics/chem and math?
And Mark, the orginal post "was also wondering about the reputation of the music school." Very appropriate!
The website does however contain important information. One would think that they have no BA in music at a quick glance of at one post, this is not the case.
From their website,
Not my personal experience. Although they don't offer a BA at the School of Music, Yale does offer a BA and the following. B.A./M.M. PROGRAM:
Students in Yale College possessing outstanding ability in performance and composition may anticipate, through their undergraduate programs, one year of the Master of Music program in the School of Music, provided they have completed four terms of performance (MUSI 360a or b, 361a or b, 460a or b, and 461a or b) and MUSI 210a or b and 211a or b by the end of the junior year.
The program is open to majors both in Music and in other subjects. Majors in subjects other than Music may present four courses toward the M.M. degree in addition to four terms of performance. These courses normally include MUSI 310a, 311b and two of MUSI 350b, 351a, and 352b, taken by the end of the junior year.
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Author: Keil
Date: 2003-07-03 00:34
I was told that Yale is a very good school for music, however, due to Shifrin's extensive soloing/chamber music career he's rarely there... i don't know how all that works out but if someone does could they tell me how that affected their decision to go or stay?
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Author: Stoops
Date: 2003-07-03 02:44
Keil-
You raised the million dollar question. When David had to be away (as his TA) I'd arrange various guest teachers throughout the year. On average we had 5 I'd say. In two years some of the visiting teachers were Bil Jackson, Fred Ormand, Richard Hawkins, Joaquin Valdepenas, Dennis Smylie, Burt Hara, Guy Chadash...I know I'm forgetting someone. It's a trade off for sure, but we got to meet a lot of great players without having to leave New Haven. And when David IS there which was considerable, he's fantastic. In addition to lessons he coaches chamber music too. So if you're lucky enough to be assigned to him for that, it's like getting another lesson.
Stoops
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-07-03 10:50
There is a certain value to attending a school with more interesting people,
OUTside your area of major study.
While I think it reasonable, now that Global visitors come to this site (and others) to preclude the notion that common knowledge really is common;
where do the newbies suppose most of us find our information?
I propose the following:
BEFORE asking a general question, post the same to <www.google.com> or another powerful search engine.
ACTUALLY READ THE REPLIES
Contact the concerned parties directly.
Failure to comply should be punished by two hours listening to me practice.
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Author: Keil
Date: 2003-07-03 13:21
Stoops-
About how many clarinets were in the studio? I take it there were alot of performance opportunities? upon graduation did you leave with a sense of accomplishment and a "can do" attitude (basically feeling confident in auditioning and obtaining a performance career)? Also, do you recommend Shifrin to the more solo/chamber music oriented clarinetist or would you say those who would like to have an orchestral career as well as a prominent solo/chamber music career also should apply? Me personally i would fancy the latter, i think it's the best of both worlds but ultimately chamber music and orchestral playing are my passions. Recital clarinetistry and or Johnathon Cohler/ Richard Stoltzman-esque soloing career at present is not my main goal.
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2003-07-03 13:29
I believe Shifrin was immediate successor to Robert Marcellus as principal clarinet in the Cleveland Orchestra, so you needn't worry about his orchestral pedigree or the preparation you'd receive for that path.
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: Gretchen
Date: 2003-07-03 13:45
I just did a masterclass with him in February and played the Brahms sonata. He was sooo encouraging and so nice and had really helpful comments that made me sound all the better. He got really into it even though he was sick! It was an inspiration to even be in the same room for him, let alone get comments from him, being that he's such an accomplished musican. I'm sure having him as a teacher would be fantastic no matter what you wanted to focus on since he has the experience of all fields to take you wherever you want to go. He's a soloist, an orchestral player and a chamber musician...and he's got a great CD out in all those fields to prove it. 
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2003-07-03 14:03
New Haven CT. is about 45-50 min driving (I95) from NYC. When I was in the Navy I was attached to the sub base in Groton and drove from Long Island to the base most weekends passing through New Haven.
Best Regards
Mark
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Author: Stoops
Date: 2003-07-03 21:46
<upon graduation did you leave with a sense of accomplishment and a "can do" attitude (basically feeling confident in auditioning and obtaining a performance career)?>
Keil-
I hesitate answering that question because it doesn't seem like the criteria on which to judge a school. Yes, there is something to a school's alumni record and where those people are currently working, BUT if you have enough drive and initiative to look beyond the school and its' teachers that'll do more to advance your goals. I know this is a bit vague but I think that one has to have the mindset THROUGHOUT your education of a professional and act the part even if you do not (yet) have the job/$$$ that goes along with it. Too often students just go through their training without thinking about what's going to happen upon graduation. Or even if they have been thinking about it they haven't had enough experience going for the job.
I personally carried on this way through undergrad to a degree. I was successful and improved as a player, but knew I wanted to go to grad school to work with David so I didn't think of the realities waiting ahead enough.
No matter where you are (physically and ability-wise) always keep your goals in the forefront of your mind. And hey, maybe you'll end up winning a job BEFORE you graduate!
<Also, do you recommend Shifrin to the more solo/chamber music oriented clarinetist or would you say those who would like to have an orchestral career as well as a prominent solo/chamber music career also should apply? Me personally i would fancy the latter, i think it's the best of both worlds >
Again, do/study what you want, and the rest will fall into place. I wouldn't say that David is EXCITED about teaching excerpts but if he knows you are serious about it and open-minded then you will benefit greatly. Two colleagues of mine (Jenny Jonquil, principal Charleston Symphony and Chad Burrow, principal Tulsa-or is it OK Symphony) brought excerpts to their lessons at least half (or more) of the time. I, on the otherhand, have a couple chamber groups (Da Capo Chamber Players and the Bonade Clarinet Quartet) and supplement it with freelance orchestral playing on the side. Obviously, a steady orchestra job is (usually) somewhat more lucrative and/or stable but it's not what everybody wants. To make a long answer short, he can HELP you get whatever you really want and are willing to work for. So can a lot of people.
Sorry for being so verbose,
Stoops
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Author: ginny
Date: 2003-07-03 23:05
Hi Stoops,
Thanks for posting all this info. I assume that they have an undergraduate teacher for the music majors not at the music school. I did not see any reference on the website, so do you know anything about the undergrad clarinet or composition major.
Yale actually looks very interesting for my younger son, for undergrad perhaps the BA/MA degree.
Ginny
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Author: Stoops
Date: 2003-07-04 05:27
Ginny-
Actually, the graduate students are the instructors for the undergraduates. I knew one student who studied with David but he was a rare exception.
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Author: ginny
Date: 2003-07-04 17:02
Thanks Stoops,
I didn't expect Shifrin, but I think we want to avoid the big school thing where you get grad students as teachers. Even if they are great players, they'd be learning to teach with my son!
I won't rule them out just yet, but a major ding.
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Author: Stoops
Date: 2003-07-04 21:01
Ginny-
I forgot to mention that generally speaking undergraduates who studied with us were invited to come to David's masterclasses. That's not a bad deal!
I think we need to kill this thread.
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Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-07-05 21:41
Mark P, during the "real war" my brother Howard was a musician stationed at the sub-base for a while and he told me those crazy folk actually put tomato juice in their beer! True? or just something any weird basoon/sax player would tell you?
Bob A
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