 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bob Schwab
Date: 2003-06-21 03:59
I just discovered that if I drink a lot of soda and burp as I play, the pitch drops significantly and then climbs back up to the original pitch once the burp is gone. I should buy some helium and see what happens if I inhale that and play. I wonder how much that would transpose the key of the clarinet. Schwantner watch out.
Bob Schwab
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-06-21 05:02
Be on the look out for a Spike Jones revival band. You would be a natural.
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Author: CPW
Date: 2003-06-21 05:19
OOOOOOOOOOO Helium!!!!!!!
Let us know what happens.
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2003-06-21 07:41
Watch out for projectile burps - could ruin Rhapsody in Blue straight off !!
Also, too much Helium and you'll turn a Bb into an eefer !
Fizzy drinks certainly won't B flat
etc - any more ?
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Author: jez
Date: 2003-06-21 11:58
Bob,
I've done the helium trick.
The same thing happens. The pitch rises dramatically for a while then returns to normal. I think it went up by about a 4th.
I think it's not medically advised to do this so take my word for it, don't try it yourself! ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
jez
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Author: William
Date: 2003-06-21 15:50
Up until I played the musical Annie, I made it a practice to always have a can of diet cola beside my sax stand for occassional sips. Since experiancing the pitch phenomonum you have described (making the musical even more dreadful during the famous sop sax solo), I have discontinued the use of carbonated refreshment and have resorted to water (which can be opened without the aid of audience applause or laughter).
I have often wondered what specifically causes the pitch drop and if the effect could be somehow be controlled.
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Author: Bob Schwab
Date: 2003-06-21 17:21
An explanation of the pitch drop is easy. CO2, the stuff that gives soda its fizz, is more dense than the air we breathe, which is approx. 78% nitrogen, 20% oxygen, and 2% whatever. Helium on the other hand is less dense than the air we breathe, thereby causing an increase in pitch.
About that Spike Jones comment, I was a weird child. I loved listening to my parent's Spike Jones records. When other kids were listening to The Doors, The Rolling Stones, and The Beatles, I used to listen to Spike Jones, Alan Sherman, Homer and Jethro, and Tom Lehrer. I can appreciate that Spike Jones had to have had exceptional musicians to be able to pull the stuff off that he did.
Any idea what would happen if you were able to rig up a way to play the clarinet with an oboe or basson reed?
Bob Schwab
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-06-21 21:31
There were a few recordings released by "Spike Jones and his Other Orchestra" which were rather excellent, smooth presentations. The players were the same as his usual pack of jesters.
On the question of density, Bob Schwab is on the ball. Carbon dioxide is 52% more dense than standard dry air, which is over seven times more dense than helium. And this brings up my wondering about something.
As altitude increases, air pressure decreases, hence the air density is lower. Standard air is 52% more dense at sea level than at 13,637 feet or 4,156.5 meters elevation. This seems to indicate the pitch of a Clarinet at that elevation should go up by an amount comparable to the degree it goes down at low elevations when blowing CO2 through it. Maybe the percentages are off a bit, or am I missing something fundamental? Even at an elevation of 7,432 feet or 2265.3 meters. there is only 80% of standard pressure. I would think this difference should make a noticeable effect in a Clarinet's pitch, but I've not reaearched this. I've been a bit high when playing, but not that high. So my experience is no help.
Can someone comment on this? Has anyone observed sharpness when playing at high elevations?
Regards,
John
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-06-21 21:56
Perhaps the pitch of all (wind) instruments becomes equally higher at high elevations, so that there's no problem at all, as long as the strings are willing to adjust (unless they are affected equally as well, which I doubt)!
Henry
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-06-21 22:03
Forget about him/her. Who wants to drag a piano up a mountain?
Henry
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Author: krawfish3x
Date: 2003-06-21 23:08
maybe wind instruments do play in tune in higher altitudes because if the density of the air goes down so does the pressure being exerted by it to the clarinet. so maybe if there is more pressure on the outside than on the inside, the pitch differs and vise versa. maybe someone has a degree in physics who could tell us.
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Author: dfh
Date: 2003-06-22 02:49
I remember the first day I burped into my clarinet and was able to control the sound/pitch so no one knew.....strange things we do huh?
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2003-06-22 04:44
I think the effect is indeed caused by differing densities. The pressure difference between the bore and the surrounding air is miniscule and would not change with a change in altitude.
When ascending into the mountains the overall ambient air pressure decreases, but the differential between the bore and the outside air should still be the same. Hence the horn plays in tune (or at least close enough that no problem is noted).
Now huff some C02 and then play and the air inside the clarinet is denser (it will be C02 plus expired C02 plus air) than the pure air outside it. Since the concentration of C02 is going to be higher than normal the air inside will be denser than usual and you should get a lowering of pitch. Now try Helium and the expired mix (He + expired C02 + air) should be less dense than the surrounding air and the usual expired mix so you should expect the pitch to rise.
This all is my guess, I really see no way that you can effect a change in pressures from what is normally the case, unless you learn to blow harder than you ever have before.
IMHO, Terry
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