 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: John Morton
Date: 2003-06-21 16:27
I purchased an R13 Greenline 2 1/2 yrs. ago. It came with a 66.3 mm. barrel, which makes it impossible for me to bring the instrument up to pitch. The dealer maintained that the horn undoubtedly was pitch-tested, but that environmental changes (humidity? pressure?) can have a surprising effect on pitch. I felt I was entitled to something that played in pitch, but the best the dealer would do was to give me the shortest barrel that would fit the horn, at cost. This was a DEG synthetic barrel that measures 63.45 mm. (Why can't these things have even measurements?)
I can just bring the DEG to pitch, but only after several minutes of warmup. Too bad it looks hideous. It sounds fine, is fairly heavy and and has the Moenig-style reverse taper that is favored by many players. But wanting to give myself some slack, I decided I should get something which I can play to pitch from a cold start. You don't find sub-63 mm. barrels for sale, so I got some Delrin and made a 62 mm. barrel w/ reverse taper and a traditional shape. I'm pretty happy with it, but I still have no tuning room on the sharp side.
I decided that I would get in trouble sometime if I didn't carry something that would tune no matter what the conditions. So I sent for a Click barrel despite a suspicion that they are a stopgap designed for middle school band instructors to get their sections in tune. But at least they go down to 61 mm.
The Click just arrived, and the socket for the upper joint tenon is .010" (.25 mm.) too small! It's construction also seems inconsistent with the rest of a clarinet, with a weight half that of a solid barrel. It's hard to believe something so wimpy will give me a solid tone. The wall thickness surrounding the tenon socket is so thin that I would hesitate to bore out the socket enough to try it out (even if I didn't care about making it un-returnable).
As you may suspect, my setup and embouchure are on the lighter end of the spectrum. However I put in several hours a week as a casual player and find myself totally pleased with my progress on all fronts.
Assuming I come up with a barrel that has a good average range of pitch and decent intonation over the range of the clarinet, should I still be looking to tighten my embouchure enough to use that 66 mm. barrel? I don't have a teacher, but will be seeing one soon so I can make some tests and comparisons with a competitive player. But I do invite the comments of anyone here who cares to offer observations on my story.
John
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-06-21 16:38
If you always seem to be playing flat, tightening your embouchure won't get to the root of the problem - raising the back of your tongue will. Try thinking of saying 'd' or 'e' and see if that doesn't bring the pitch up a bit and also give you more focus in your tone.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2003-06-21 18:51
Maybe you got yourself an A clarinet by accident (lol).
It sounds a bit drastic that you can't get it up to pitch with a 61 mm barrel, five mm shorter than standard length for 440 instruments. What about the mouthpiece? does it play up to pitch on other instruments?
If you are a decent player your embouchure shuld not be the problem. Five mm on a barrel is a lot. I'll put my 2 cents on the mouthpiece being the problem if your instrument wasn't made on a monday morning (Swedish joke).
Alphie
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-06-21 19:48
Alphie wrote:
> I'll put my 2 cents on
> the mouthpiece being the problem if your instrument wasn't made
> on a monday morning (Swedish joke).
Our "Monday morning" joke out here in Detroit normally refers to cars
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Author: Wes
Date: 2003-06-21 20:36
If you could find a clarinet tuning and repair specialist, it would be good to get another opinion on it. It just seems too out for a Greenline clarinet.
Once, I bought an Eb clarinet at a garage sale and took it to Glen Johnston for an opinion or work on it. He decided that it was really too long and put the upper joint in his lathe and removed about a sixteenth of an inch from the top end of it which brought it up to pitch ok.
You may wish to call the Buffet place near Los Angeles and talk to the well known expert who works there about it. I believe his name is Kloc?? Good luck.
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Author: Fred
Date: 2003-06-22 01:24
I agree . . . the clarinet needs looking at by someone that can make it right. Francois Kloc would be my #1 choice.
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Author: wjk
Date: 2003-06-22 02:16
Why don't you contact Robert Scott(or other barrel makers) about making you a custom barrel? I'll think you'll find it a rewarding experience and will be happy with the result.
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Author: dfh
Date: 2003-06-22 02:27
Two other big variables for pitch: mouthpeice and reed strength. I have found that a harder reed will make a huge difference. As might a different mouthpiece. A good teacher would be able to help you asses your complete set up, or at least perhaps have other equipment for you to try up against yours. Good luck!
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Author: ken
Date: 2003-06-22 18:36
A standard 440-pitched American R-13 Bb Greenline in servicable condition requiring a 62mm barrel to maintain pitch? Something is very wrong, either you're playing on a pea shooter for a mp, your fundamentals for breath support are suspect or the ensemble(s) you're in are pitched unreasonably sky high. v/r Ken
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Author: johnh
Date: 2003-06-22 20:35
I would like to agree with the comment about the mouthpiece and reed.
About a year ago my instructor and I agreed that my setup was not helping my intonation. She had a performance in NYC and on the way she dropped my clarinet off with Vince Marinelli. He did some adjustments that fixed alot of the problems. In addition, when I drove up from N. Virginia to Deleware to pick it up, I spent about an hour looking for a new mouthpiece.
The result was a M13 Lyre that really helped. My tone is more centered and I more in tune. The only problem was that my upper register was still a little on the flat side until I could move to harder reeds (3 to 4). I just am finishing that transition.
I would look at the mouthpiece and reed combination as a possible problem.
Joh
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Author: John Morton
Date: 2003-06-23 15:33
Thanks everyone for the variety of comments and advice. I have deferred working on this problem for too long because it was not an issue after I had made a compensating barrel.
My setup is a Vandoren B45 profile 88 mouthpiece, Mitchell Lurie 3 or Gonzalez 2.5 or Legere 2.75 reed, Rovner ligature. I am very interested in the notion of harder reeds just because I want to know what I'm missing. But I have not yet succeeded in taking myself beyond this point, and I don't perceive any problems in my playing with the current setup.
I have no contact with knowledgable clarinetists, spending all my time with small jazz combinations (who tune to A440). As with the majority of discussions in this forum, the situation points to consultation with a good teacher. I will certainly do that before committing to a major change in how I approach the instrument, or making any serious alterations in the hardware.
thanks again
John
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Author: Burt
Date: 2003-06-23 17:05
Playing loud and using vibrato may be contributing to playing flat. For jazz work, I tune sharper, but only by 1/2 mm.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2003-06-23 17:36
My initial guess would be that you may need to go with a slightly harder reed. Try to find a good teacher who can work with you a bit. As others have suggested, there may be other problems here, such as embouchure. There should be no reason that a standard set up should be that far out. Good Luck
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Author: John Morton
Date: 2003-06-24 16:45
There must have been a short circuit in my mind when I remembered my B45 mouthpiece - it's actually a V13, which after reading archived postings proves to be mentioned as playing somewhat flat compared to other mouthpieces! This suggests a round of mouthpiece trials, in search of something which plays sharper on average but also allows wide, controlled variations in pitch for my forays into older jazz playing styles. I will read more back postings, it's all quite fascinating!
John
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Author: Jeff Forman
Date: 2003-06-24 21:49
Have you looked into a Vandoren 5JB mouthpiece? That will take the softer reeds and it is designed for jazz playing. I have one and I like it a lot. Except that after I play it awhile, if I go back to the M13, it is a struggle because the 5JB doesn't force you to work as hard and you can get lazy with your embouchure. But the jazz sounds produced ont he 5JB are neat.
Jeff
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Author: joan
Date: 2004-10-22 05:54
the click barrel... I have one in my clarinet case at all times! Yes, I prefer the wooden one (Leblanc Symphony IV clarinet) but sometimes playing in tune is more important that the tone. Yes, community theatre orchestra pits... with "out of tune" pianos and temperature differences. I have an inexpensive plastic click barrel that is the non-locking type. I can change it "on the fly". The current pit is in a loft and the temperature changes at an amazing rate!
The clarinet "draws green" on every note with the regular barrel so I don't always have to use the click barrel.... only when there's a tuning problem.
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