 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: wjk
Date: 2003-06-14 19:01
Call me crazy, but I'm going to play clarinet with my electric guitar blues buddies. I'll play clarinet through a microphone. Does anyone have any suggestions for me? Any suggested keys to play in? Is anyone aware of any recordings available of clarinet with electric guitars and bass playing blues?
Thanks!
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-06-14 19:11
Well, most of the stuff on the Charlie Christian: Genius of the Electric Guitar box set is jazz blues, but I have a feeling that's not the kind of blues you're referring to. Still, it couldn't hurt to listen to how Benny Goodman and Charlie Christian interact/blend/etc.
You probably know this, but I can't tell you how many times I've seen others do this . . . Don't put the mic in your bell, as the clarinet is not a "directional" instrument.
Sounds like fun! Have a great time! ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
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Author: Brian Peterson
Date: 2003-06-14 19:24
There's a book of Led Zeppelin cover tune arrangements for clarinet that I picked up on e-bay a while back.
Cutting loose with Black Dog, Kashmir or Stairway to Heaven manages to elicit more than a few funny looks not only from the cat, but the rest of my family. A long blonde wig with a psychadelic headband, rose colored round sun glasses and no shirt would probably complete the effect but I haven't gone there yet.
I too say, "have fun!"
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Regards,
Brian Peterson
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-06-15 00:59
In all my experience, a grain of salt compared to many others who hang out here, I've never found a need to amplify my horn. If it comes to that, in my opinion you need to turn the other instruments down a bit. The audience will love that and, really, a clarinet can project very well unless maybe, just maybe, you're at the top edge of the Grand Canyon.
As mentioned already, there are tons of guitar/clarinet recordings available. Or, best of all... simply make your own. It'll be even more fun for your buddies if you can brush up on playing in C, D and A -- D, E and B for you -- and...trust me...it'll surprise you how soon you'll get used to those keys when you're having fun). 
- r![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) n b -
[been there a few times]
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-06-15 02:56
Unfortunately, even a small restaurant is lound enough that accoustic guitars may not be able to be heard. There is a reason why the early jazz bands had banjos instead of guitars and tubas instead of basses. I prefer to play accoustic blues, but electric is fun once in a while.
I go to electric jams occasionally. Unfortunately, the best way to mike a clarinet is to use multiple mikes. However, since that won't happen, probably you will end up pointing the clarinet to a single mike. Otherwise, you just won't be heard. You have to pull away a little when you play low E or low B.
Make sure that the guitars are in tune with you. Sometimes guitars tend to tune sharper over time. Once they get too sharp, you are dead in the water.
Most important, get a mike that is set up for a singer. If they hand you an "instrument" mike or one set up for a harp, you will sound aweful.
The singer will call the tune and the key. Sometimes I request that each tune be in a different key. We should be able to play in any key, but I have fewer creative ideas if the only think I can play is a sharp or flat. Three straight in the same bad key isn't much fun. Anything in a mnor key tends to work well for clarinet.
Most important: don't play when the singer's mouth is open. Sometimes it is very effective to wait a few beats after the singer pauses before playing a very short phrase. Some guitars & harps are very tasteful about adding such fills. Sometimes you can do very will by simply echoing the other player on alternate phrases.
When I am not playing solos, I try to think of the clarinet as a rhythm instrument and stay in the low register and play short, repetitive figures. Once in a while, if the lead guitar is phrasing with some long notes, you can get an interesting effect by climbing a third or more above on those long notes. Be warned, some guitars find this annoying.
Many jams go two times through for solos. If you play very quietly the first time through (and the other musicians are actually listening) they may drop down. If fact, if you can hold it to a whisper in the low register, you get a really husky tone. Then crank it up the second time through and you can really ride on top of the band.
I once watched Steve Levine (a fine harp player in the D.C. area) realize that the guitars were totally overpowering him. He put down the mike and walked into the audiance and kept playing. Finally, the guitars had to crank down enough so he could be heard. The relatively young guitar players were upset because they felt like they were being criticised, but the audiance really got into it.
Hopefully there will be monitors, meaning a few speakers that point back to the musicians so that you can hear what the group sounds like. Unfortunately, you may sound good in the monitor but the sound going to audiance may be too quiet. Don't be surprised if people come up and say things like : You sounded pretty good, but I couldn't hear you much.
Listen to yourself. If a note sounds really bad, don't stop playing. Sometimes just play a half step higher in time with the music and it will make it sound intentional. Sometimes if you repeat a wrong note enough, it will begin to sound right. Just remember, the audiance isn't listening to what you just played. They are listening to what you are going to play next.
To practice, turn the sterio up until the neighbors complain and play along with someone like Roy Buchannan. (Boy could that guy make a guitar scream. Come to think of it, it makes one of my neighbors scream, too. )
Which brings us to ear plugs. Yeah, more musicians are using them. A few weeks ago a drummer explained that he didn't have a lot of hearing left, he didn't want to waste it on a bunch of teen aged stratocaster freaks.
Let us know how it works out.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-06-15 15:23
Check out some "Hot Club de Paris" disks.....Sidney Bechet et al
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2003-06-15 17:14
Good comments here.
Seach for "microphone" to see other threads on this board.
Purists will cringe, but to better match your amplified friends, try running your sound through a guitar effects box.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2003-06-15 19:37
This might step on a few toes, but here goes...
Ignore most of what you have seen on this thread and study carefully (or better yet print out) the post by Jim Lande. Much of the other advice is coming from a clarinet-centered perspective, and you are about to enter a guitar-centered situation.
Your #1 job is not to try and adapt the situation to yourself, but adapt yourself to the situation. Here are some things that might help
1 - Practice a lot in concert E, A, D, G, and C, your written F#, B, E, A and D. These are very popular keys in guitar bands. The flat keys that we normally associate with band instruments are very UNpopular in guitar bands. They are also difficult for mediocre guitarists. If you have an A clarinet, I suggest taking it along. Also make sure that you know what each concert key translates to on each instrument you play.
2 - Know your pentatonic and blues scales in each key. You can construct entire solos based on them, and you can also use them to rescue you if you start to nosedive in the middle of something else. If you are not familiar with the structure of these scales, just let us know and someone will provide you the information.
3 - Don't plan on getting a guitar band to turn the volume down. Be prepared to play into a mic, possibly a vocal mic. If there is a monitor speaker, don't be intimidated by the sound blasting back at you. Electric bands are loud by nature and the monitor is put there to let you be able to hear yourself without overblowing. If you try to compete acoustically with even one electric guitar, you will blow your chops in a very short time.
You may have to share a mic with a vocalist. If this is the case, let the vocalist run the show. An experienced vocalist will know how to work it out. If the vocalist is inexperienced, at least you won't have upstaged him/her. (Unless you are a fairly experienced blues player, I would actually avoid getting into fills behind a vocalist on your first try)
4 - Don't bother looking for recordings of clarinets playing in electric blues bands. What you seem to be describing will be very unlike Benny Goodman & Charlie Christian. You should be listening to the kind of music that your friends play, so ask them what exactly that is. Perhaps they can lend you some recordings that include tunes that they know. The world of the blues involves a lot more than just 12-bar blues, and it would behoove you to know as many songs as possible from the repertoire of the band you plan to play with. You can learn plenty about soloing in this style from listening to sax players and trumpet players.
5 - If you are not actually a member of the band, and are just sitting in, limit the amount of time you spend on stage, and how many choruses you play while you're up there. If you are not an experienced soloist don't take more than two choruses of blues at the time--even if your friends are egging you on. (guitar players can go all night on pentatonic runs and power chords) The most important part of flying a plane is landing it before it runs out of gas. Make sure that you get out of your solo before you run out of good ideas.
6 - Don't be afraid to be raucous in your playing. This is an element of the music, and audiences like it. They didn't come to hear you play Premiere Rhapsodie, and your accompaniment is not going to be orchestral. Also learn a few pentatonic scale runs if you can. The same runs can be adapted to both major and minor, audiences eat them up, and they leave you an escape hatch if other things aren't working out in a solo. Guitar players lean heavily on these, and your friends can teach you how to do them.
7 - There is much about band instruments that guitar players don't understand. The responsibility for making the translation is entirely on you. Know your key versus concert key. Know your limits as a soloist. (there is no clarinet equivalent to the power chord, BTW) Know what your best keys are, and know what THEIR best keys are. Don't expect them to know your tunes. Make sure that YOU know THEIR tunes.
Allen Cole
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Author: allencole
Date: 2003-06-15 19:49
Addendum to #4 in my post. You may be lucky to even find sax or trumpet players on your friends' recordings. You can learn plenty about soloing from listening to guitar players as well.
Allen Cole
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-06-16 02:38
A few more thoughts.
First, check out the MP3 downloads that Jack Falk has on his website. I found these last night. If you like them as much as I do, you will buy some of his CDs.
http://jackfalk.wolfnetradio.com/Jack%20Falk%20Downloads.htm
Jack was good enough to write back and give me the keys to most of his tunes.
"All Smoked Out" A
"Tribute To Roy" D I believe or maybe C
"The Sleeper" A
"Just Another Day" ?
"Blues Jam Revisited" C
"Hear My Train" E
"Loose Ends" E
"Spirits Crying" A
"Blues For Stills" D
"No Ganja Blues" E
Note how closely this matches Alan Cole's list. The only thing missing is G, whcih I have heard some musicians refer to as the people's key. G is a very friendly key for the clarinet. FYI, "Tribute to Roy" is to Roy Buchannan, pehaps one of the best ELECTRIC blues guitar players of all time. I love playing along with Buchannan CDs
I agree with most everything Alan says. Let me clarify about fills. Some folks play fills in the background while the singer is singing. Don't do this. I was suggesting fills only where there are long pauses between phrases. Many songs don't have these pauses and sometimes it is hard to know when the singer will cut back in. Listen to the phrasing the first time through and then think about adding a few notes when the coast is clear. However, don't be surprised if the guitar or harp gets there first. Then you have to do something that fits -- less is more. Maybe Alan is right. Save it for the second outing.
One thought about listening to sax solos. Many sax players are jazz based and really stretch the boundaries of the blues. This is a good thing, and I would love to have some of those licks in my reed case. You may find it easier to imitate the guitar and harp parts rather than other horn players. (Hey, if you can do all the Goodman licks, then you don't need my advice.)
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Author: allencole
Date: 2003-06-16 05:17
That's an important point, Jim, and one that I wish I'd thought to mention. Jam sessions are infamous for those mob scene attempts at fills. When wind players, guitar players and drummers all try to fill in this manner, the end of each vocal phrase sounds like two 18-wheelers desperately honking their airhorns the instant before they collide head-on, eliciting gut-wrenching screeches from the cat that's trapped between them in the crosswalk. Hmm...could it be even WORSE than taking too many choruses? <g>
One other comment on solo materials. I had a very bright-but-lazy student whose uncle was a pretty good rock guitarist. When I taught the kid his pentatonic scale, the uncle siezed on it and taught the kid how to run all sorts of patterns and the kid practiced it more than anything he did in his life. Of course he didn't bother to learn it in any key but C, but the kid really sounded beautiful and his whole church congregation was proclaiming him a genius. We button-pushers can definitely learn a few things from the other side of the tracks.
Allen Cole
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Author: wjk
Date: 2003-06-16 19:00
Thanks for the absolutely incredible responses-----what great advice!
Will let you all know "how it goes"......
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Author: Eileen
Date: 2003-06-16 20:21
I wouldn't hesitate to request transposition to an easier key. After all, the guitars will usually do it for singers. If the electric guitars are playing power chords, barre chords or "mini-chords," it is simple for them to transpose. They simply move the shapes up or down the requisite number of frets. If playing open-chords, it is easy to use a capo to transpose. While acoustic guitar players use capos all the time, many electric players rarely use them. So you might have to nag them to bring a capo or, worst case, buy inexpensive capos and bring them along yourself. Especially since so many blues songs are in E, a wonderful key on the guitar and a horrendous F# for clarinet. Capo at the first fret for the guitars would convert the song to F concert and G for the clarinet. Much nicer.
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-06-17 00:53
Eileen " wouldn't hesitate to request transposition to an easier key"
Have you actually done this? I wouldn't have the nerve. Remember, you are the least desirable instrument there.
I have never seen a capo on an electric guitar, but don't doubt it could be done. I don't know what happens when you capo a bass. However, I am pretty sure that you can't capo the singer. Bad idea.
There are lots of guitar players who can play anything in any key. Over the past few weeks, I have watched the host band at the Bankok Blues Tuesday evening blues jam play any swing tune requested, some jazz standards, a Joni Mitchell tune and some Brazilian stuff.
However, there are some mean cusses in the world who would let you call the key, and then find a way to add chord changes and trick out the rhythm and basically play crack the whip with you.
Playing in E is no big deal. Bring an A horn if your are worried.
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-06-17 03:42
Another place to find legal mp3s. I think the site is run by SuperDave Harris, a DC area harp player. All of the tracks are intended as music minus one for harp players. Several cuts in G and some minor keys.
http://bluesharp.onlinejam.org/jam02/jamsend.shtml
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Author: wjk
Date: 2003-06-17 03:59
If you really want to shake things up, the guitarists can tune their guitars differently. This is routinely done to play slide guitar (the guitar is tuned to a G chord, for example---) Al Collins, the great blues guitarist, played an electric Fender telecaster tuned to a Fm chord. He also used a capo---look up some of his album covers. By the way, he is an incredibly expressive and emotional guitarist!
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Author: allencole
Date: 2003-06-17 07:39
I must say that I'm curious to know what experiences Eileen may have had sitting in with bands.
Of COURSE guitars can make barres and use capos. While we're at it, let's tell the brass players to snap on a couple of bucket mutes so that they better blend with the clarinet.
But this puts a caption beneath your face which says "more trouble than you're worth." F# is not a fun key on clarinet, but the F# blues scale is perfectly playable. An A clarinet would convert concert E to written G.
If you MUST be selective about what key you play in, ask to play on a song that the band regularly plays in a particular key.
All this assumes that the band is a group of really good musicians. If you're dealing with some hackers, they might not be CAPABLE of adapting to you. Also be aware that bands can brutally humiliate an inept or overly demanding sit-in.
Allen Cole
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2003-06-17 14:27
wyk,
If you email me at nancyandrog@earthlink.net I'll send you Tim Price's email address. Tim is a monster player who plays various woodwinds -- saxophones, Bb & bass clarinet, flute, bassoon -- in jazz, blues, and rock settings. If anyone can give you some good pointers about playing clarinet in an electric blues band it would be Tim.
In my jazz group I play clarinet on close to an equal basis as my saxophones. I use Morgan RM28 (1.28 mm) and RM15 (1.15 mm) mouthpieces. I can get a very good amount of volume with these pieces. Never the less, I found that I need to mike the clarinet in performances in order to achieve a good balance with the rest of the group. It's possible that I might be able to get a greater level of volume with an more open jazz clarinet mouthpiece. But, I really love the tonal qualities I get with a Morgan RM-series mouthpiece. Therefore, working with my tone is more important to me than brute force volume. So, I'll use the mike.
Another thing I do is use C and Bb clarinets. The C clarinet has a somewhat brighter, lighter sound than a Bb. The C clarinet also has a remarkable amount of projection. In addition, there are times when I feel more comfortable using the concert-pitch C clarinet instead of transposing with the Bb. It all depends upon the particular situation.
I've come to really enjoy playing the C clarinet in my jazz group. This could be something for you to think about. I use a Patricola C clarinet (grenadilla wood) that's been tweeked by Steve Fowler. My standard set up on the C clarinet is a Morgan RM28 mouthpiece and silver Francois Louis ligature. If I need slightly brighter tonal qualities I'll switch to a brass FL lig.
I admire your spirit. The blues is part of the clarinet's heritage. Have fun with it
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-06-17 17:40
Admire your spirit wjk.....but forget about bringing capos for the guys....Johnny Walker Red would be a better choice
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-06-17 21:49
Regarding C clarinets, I recently had a chance to play on one of the hard rubber C clarinets Tom Ridenour makes. The tone is a little different than that of a Bb, as Roger mentioned, and at first the smaller size feels a little odd, but it was a lot of fun to play on, and not difficult to get a good sound out of, either. The intonation seemed OKeh, too, but I didn't check it against a tuner (just by ear). You might want to look into getting a C cl if you end up playing with non-transposing instruments a lot!
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Author: Eileen
Date: 2003-06-17 22:07
Well, I play guitar. Not tremendously well but enough to know that transposing chords for the guitar is nowhere near as traumatic as playing my clarinet in a nasty key. I often will transpose something with a capo or moveable chords just to be able to sing it in my range. Or to use an easier fingering since I'm not super proficient. The capos will work just fine with an electric. The bass will probably just have to cope by tranposing. I liked the idea about plying the guitar players with alcohol. As long as you bring the beer or whiskey, you can probably call the key to your whim! My guitar class always plays much better when someone brings beer.
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