 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: wjk
Date: 2003-06-11 03:17
The B&W speakers I've been looking at have bi-wiring capabilities--- Will the upper and lower ranges of a clarinet be better defined in a bi-wired system? If I don't bi-wire (I don't even think my amp is capable of this) do I just connect speaker wire to the upper two connectors on the speakers?
Thanks!
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Author: msloss
Date: 2003-06-11 12:38
WJK,
You only need to biwire if you are bi-amping. There is a school of thought that suggests decoupling the power-hungry low-frequency sound production from the higher frequencies with separate amps for more clarity and dynamic range. You're gonna have to spend a whole lot more money (bi-amped dual mono, for instance) before that kind of nuance would be evident.
There are either jumpers or gold-plated brackets that link one set of terminals to the other. As long as those are in place, you just jack your amp into one set and you'll drive the whole speaker.
Now, if you want to decouple the top joint from the bottom joint of your clarinet...
M.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-06-11 15:12
Bi-wiring, as opposed to bi-amping, is cheap to try, since almost all amplifiers have two sets of speaker connections.
You remove the connecting straps between the tweeter and the woofer terminals on the speakers and run wires from the "A" speaker connections on the amplifier to, say, the tweeters, and from the "B" connections to the woofers. Some people claim to hear a difference, which, in theory, can be caused by intermodulation distortion when the woofer and tweeter produce back-EMF, but it seems to me this would migrate back to the amplifier and cause the same distortion there.
I have B&W speakers and did the experiment, but couldn't hear any difference.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Tim K
Date: 2003-06-11 15:37
There's a lot of debate on biwiring from one amp. The objectivists say it can't make an audible difference. Many subjectivist claim they can hear the benefit. I have biwireable speakers and had an extra pair of cables, so I biwire and tell myself it sounds better. If I didn't already have two pairs of speaker cables I would just use the jumpers. If you use a single cable pair and don't connect the two sets of terminals only your tweeters or woofers will play, depending on which pair of terminals you connect to.
There are nasty, nasty disagreements about the benefits of exotic cable construction. Some hard-core audiophiles spend $5,000 or more just on speaker cables and interconnects. Others contend the better Radio Shack products sound just as good. Audiophiles make Buffet vs. Leblanc vs. Selmer debates sound like a meeting of the Good Fellowship Society.
By the way, you can biwire from an amp with a single pair of outputs. You just connect two speaker cables to each amp output
Post Edited (2003-06-11 15:41)
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Author: allencole
Date: 2003-06-11 16:35
Bi-wiring is a new one on me, but it sounds like the purpose is to clean the sound by having separate wires for high and low frequencies. A couple of things seem strange about this, and perhaps someone could clarify:
1 - If you bi-wire speakers, doesn't that mean that you're bypassing the crossover?
2 - If you're worried about losses in a common wire, couldn't you just replace it with larger gauge wire?
3 - If the amount of power consumed by bass is a concern, how does it help to run a separate line to your tweeters? Wouldn't that simply subject them to more abuse from bass energy that would normally be intercepted by the crossover? It seems to me that this would only serve to damage your tweeters.
I am curious, to say the least, to understand the advantage of bi-wiring if you're not bi-amping. The B&W website should make for very interesting reading.
Allen Cole
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Author: Tim K
Date: 2003-06-11 16:45
allencole, if I may disagree with your first paragraph: I suspect the reason for biwiring is not to clean the sound, but to sell twice as much speaker cable.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2003-06-11 17:59
Biwiring doesn't bypass the crossover network. It still runs through the high pass filter(s) for the tweeter, low pass for the woofer, and band-pass for midrange, of course subject to speaker architecture.
Back-EMF is going to propagate back to a single amp whether it is bi- or single-wired. On most amps, there is no separate gain stage for the second set of taps. They may be included to wire a second pair of speakers, but you are jacked into the same amp circuit. There are also generally no crossover networks in the amp, so the signal travelling down the wire is full bandwidth regardless of its destination. Under the theory that bigger is better, bi-wiring a single amp just means you've got more meat to carry the signal from points A to B. Maybe it makes a difference, maybe it doesn't. I file that under "whatever makes you happy".
And yes, audiophiles are even more neurotic and tweaky than clarinet players, AND they seem to have bigger budgets ($70K record players come to mind).
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-06-11 19:26
It's a good way to sell more speaker wire.
I thought the point of your rig was simplicity?
Here are some basic things that really DO make a measurable and audible difference (for cheap);
Get the speakers set up in a good position and mark the floor with tape so you can get back to the same spot.
Mount poster gum (Blue Tak from Kmart and other stores) so the cabinet won't wiggle around so much.
Find some 'squishy balls' from a novelty shop and put them under your CD player to decouple it from the thunderous bass emanating from your 302s.
Buy good CDs of music you like and actually listen through an entire side.
Buy good wine to go with the flowers you get for your understanding spouse...
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Author: allencole
Date: 2003-06-12 05:50
Thanks for the explanation, msloss. Tim K., I do agree with your assessment. It seems to me that the need for multiple wires can easily be eliminated by running two strands of 4-gauge welding cable attached to the connections with tricot clamps. <g>
Msloss, I very much agree with your assessment of the audiophile. It sounds like clarinetist psychology after a Clockwork Orange treatment. Having played in a band with a soundman of superlative imperiousness, I can see why audiophiles would engage in this hairsplitting. I believe it no accident that the soundman I described was a violin player.
Allen Cole
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Author: Phat Cat
Date: 2003-06-12 13:57
Bi-amplification (or tri) makes the most sense for speakers that are self-powered. In this situation, the amplifier, crossover and sound producer can be designed in concert for optimal results. Otherwise, the amp manufacturer has no knowledge of the specific electro-mechanical properties of what is downstream and any theoretical benefit is likely to be offset by level-matching and other problems. You, the consumer, will likely hear no appreciable difference but you will definitely notice the effect of the electronic transfer function: the act of money moving from you to the sales rep.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-06-12 14:26
Here's a tweak I found in one of the magazines years ago that's free and actually did work for me.
The polarization of the line plug can make a difference. Unplug everything from the amplifier (except of course the speakers). If you have tone controls, turn up the bass all the way and turn on the "loudness" switch (which emphasizes the bass). Then turn the volume up all the way. Listen for the amount of hum. Then, turn the volume down, turn the amplifier off and reverse the plug. Turn the amplifier on, turn up the volume and compare the amount of hum.
I found that there was a noticeable difference, depending on plug orientation.
Then, plug in the CD player and turn it on, set the amplifier for CD, and do the same experiment with the CD player plug. Do the same for any other external pieces (cassette, DVD, etc.).
Then mark the plugs with a dot of White-Out so you can reproduce the setup.
It took me about an hour to do it, and, as I said, I noticed a definite decrease in background hum. YMMV. My wife was unimpressed, but it cost nothing and provided me with some harmless obsessive amusement.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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