 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Lisa_UK
Date: 2003-06-06 18:33
Hi there,
I know that the subject of mouthpieces comes up often on here, and apologies if this has been asked before. I'm not too adept with the technical stuff - I just like to play.
As some of you might remember I recently acquired a 1958 Selmer CT. It's lovely, but the intonation is a bit problematical. Very sharp on the lower register. I was wondering whether a new mouthpiece might help matters.
I believe from what info I've managed to find out so far that I need a larger bore mouthpiece. Can anyone recommend something that might be suitable for a CT of this age? Some points to consider - I am on a pretty limited budget. I'm also a bit out of practise so I haven't worked up to playing on harder reeds yet, I'm using a 2.5 at the moment.
I know the motto is to try, try, try until you find one you like, but bearing in mind that I couldn't tell the intonation was out until I started playing along with music at home, some guidance as to where to start would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Lisa
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-06-06 20:08
I'd recommend going through a ton of B45•'s to see if there's one you like . . . The tip is more open (letting you use a softer reed), yet still controllable, and the chamber is pretty large and probably a good match for the large bore of the CT. Plus, the B45• is quite reasonably priced . . . You can probably find one for $60 or less.
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Author: Richard
Date: 2003-06-06 20:45
Lisa
What mps came with your CT? I dug around, found and used a Brillhard 4 until my Embouchure built up (and it plays mostly intune when used on a .590 bore). It took about 60 days at 30-45 mins a day to build up comfortably to a 3.5 Rico and was ready to shop around for better mouthpiece. Now I'm using an HS** and a 5JB. It took some time but I can get from E3 up to G6 to play in tune +/- 15-20cents (on a good day) with the HS**. THe 5JB will take a lot more time to get in tune but it sure blows.
As far as the 45DOT I think the bore is too large even for a CT -mine starts getting way too flat from about G5 on up.
Now the caution -as everyone else will tell you -personal experience varies. The only sure thing that seems to work for everyone is trial and error -mostly error.
I hope my experience will give you at least a starting point.
Happy tootin
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Author: Richard
Date: 2003-06-06 21:19
Sorry, +/- 15-20cents should be a range of 15-20cents from sharpest to flattest note out of tune. Maybe I get more fulent with this language one of these days -eh?
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-06-06 21:37
Lisa, I applaud your playing along with classical CDs as a pleasant method of checking intonation, I also do. On my 2 P-series CTs, I like my VD 11.6 mp [its in the same chart column as B45] for satisfactory intonation AND barrel- bore matching, via little finger test. I have other mps which are OK, but may require a bit of emb.-tuning. I use a mp patch and a Luyben lig with med reed for a medium-dark tone quality for blending. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Lisa_UK
Date: 2003-06-07 07:52
Richard, the mouthpiece that came with the CT seems to be the original Selmer one, although I can't be sure. It has the Henri Selmer Paris design on it (the same as on the upper and lower joints) and the letter "D" below the lig, which also is a Selmer with "Made In France" on it.
Maybe I should work a little bit more with this one as you suggest until I can work my way up to a harder reed. It's just that the intonation at the moment is really irritating and putting me off playing it.
Thanks for the suggestions, I'll take a trip to my local music shop and try out a few B45's - assuming they have some - it's a small dealership so I'm not sure what they're going to have in stock.
Incidentally, Don, I'm not playing along with classical CD's right now. I found some excellent sites on the web that allow you to play along with a midi score and provide the clarinet part sheet music, using the Scorch plug-in. Helps a bunch with the old sight-reading too, although I'm forever changing the screen resolution on the PC to fit the whole page in!
Lisa
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Author: Richard
Date: 2003-06-07 12:08
Lisa
The Selmer D (an older designation) is the same as the HS** and may be original. I didn't worry much about playing in tune untill my embouchure built up; then, as Don points out, alot of tuning can be done just with a good embouchure.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-06-07 14:42
You are beyond me, Lisa, re: playing along with recorded music, we have a good classical FM station where I follow along and learn new tunes!! I have an old ["inherited"] 1930-40's Selmer [Paris] mp, with HS* in an oval on the bottom of the table which plays more like a HS**!! Perhaps someone has opened and lengthened it in the past, not bad!! Also have a "Johnstone-Selmer" New York, 30's?, again not bad. Ask your repairers to look thru their old mp "boxes", you might find some golden-oldies from Selmer's big-bore [15.0mm] Balanced and CT models era, they might solve any intonation problems, as Selmers were preferred by our Jazz greats of that time period! Also have several C*s and a D [alto sax], great! in my collections! Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Lisa_UK
Date: 2003-06-07 15:03
Don,
Re the playing along - I like to be able to "read" what I'm doing, so the music scores website is ideal. The midi accompaniments are pretty good too. Not sure if I'm allowed to post URL's on here, so I'll lean on the side of caution for now and won't...
About your repairer suggestion, funnily enough I'm taking it to the repairers on Tuesday of next week, to have a very, very slight wobble on the middle tenon looked at. All being done under warranty. I suppose that might be contributing to the intonation problems too - we'll see how much better it is after it's dealt with. So I'll ask him about mouthpieces while I'm there. It'll be my first time with this particular repairer so that should be interesting!
Thanks as always,
Lisa
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-06-07 15:37
Lisa_UK wrote:
> Not sure if I'm allowed to
> post URL's on here, so I'll lean on the side of caution for now
> and won't...
I'm sure you've seen other people posting URLs ...
The only caveat I'd have is if it's a site full of copyright violations it wouldn't be welcome here ...
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Author: Lisa_UK
Date: 2003-06-07 15:45
Understood Mark - I run a forum myself and we have the same rule, pretty much.
Anyway, for anyone who's interested, it's http://www.music-scores.com (Mark please feel free to ditch this if it's not the kind of link you welcome - it all looks fairly above board to me but hey, what do I know!)
You need to get the "Scorch" plug in to be able to play the midi accompaniments and view the scores. Probably more aimed at beginner or intermediate players, but fun to play along with nonetheless if you're a "bedroom player" like me.
Going way off topic, sorry, getting carried away with my enthusiasm here.
Post Edited (2003-06-07 15:46)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-06-07 16:09
Mark- Isnt this site a subset of Shhet Music Plus, available via a click on our BB?? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2003-06-07 19:24
Almost all Vandoren mouthpieces seem to be made to match 0.574" bores.
I found only one manufacturer who now make big bore clarinets and mouthpeces for them. Peter Eaton. One of the sponcers for this BBS.
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Author: Vytas
Date: 2003-06-07 19:44
Hiroshi,
There are other factors like length of the bore, width of the chamber, shape of the baffle that are crucial to overall pitch. Clarinet bore BEGINS from the tip of your mouthpiece.
Vytas
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Author: Lisa_UK
Date: 2003-06-07 21:10
>Peter Eaton. One of the sponcers for this BBS.
Funnily enough I was looking at his website earlier. Way out of my price range unfortunately.
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Author: Lisa_UK
Date: 2003-06-10 14:48
An update - I went mouthpiece hunting today around the local music stores. I tried a some B45's, B46's and 5RV's, but I couldn't really tell the difference from my Selmer D. I decided to think on it, and then went to a different shop, and again I tried out all of the above - and I really wasn't sure about any of them - nothing "stood out". I was almost ready to go home feeling disappointed.
Then, the guy in the second shop produced a 5RV Lyre from his box of tricks and said "Try this one". I tried it and was instantly sold - the difference was amazing. I could hit high notes that I couldn't hit before, with no funny subtones - and in tune too - weyhey! I then tried it with a Rovner lig, and again, such a difference from the 5RV Lyre with my old Selmer metal lig. My old CT really "sung" with this combination - and sounded alot softer, not as harsh, actually quite orchestral sounding, if you can believe that - and wonderfully in tune with itself.
So I bought both the mouthpiece and the lig, and I'm really pleased with them. Now I just need to explain it to my other half when he comes home from work - suggestions anyone? ;-)
Thanks, as always, for your advice!
Lisa
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Author: Richard
Date: 2003-06-10 15:08
Thanks Lisa
Just play him a favorite tune - works on my wife!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-06-10 16:28
Glad you found a great 5RVL, Lisa, I have that facing on a glass crystal mp, it plays very well, has more resistance than most [for me}.. Am now trying an M Lurie M3 [old?], excellent bore match, if playing well, will report. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-06-10 18:44
Yes, the Lurie plays well, almost too easily. The glass 5RVL does also, no particular resistance noted here, same reed about a 2-2 1/2 [worked-on] Rico!! As mentioned on the comm. band thread, spurred along by our several threads [TKS to all], my #2 CT now plays as well as my #1 [pro overhauled], compares closely!! First, I have been having trouble with the Ab/Eb pad leaking [perhaps just blowing open!], replaced it and seated, STRENGHTENED its spring. Now tight. By means of a bit of cork under the touch, I reduced the reg. key opening to about 1mm as suggested, seems to "jump" the 12ths much better, pinch Bb still OK. Noting a slight "reluctance" to speak the top-of-staff G, I opened-up the lower stack's pad, by removing the felt "silencer" under the lower bridge key, does much better! Am now happy with it, looking for a place for trial, usually play bass cl in our Tulsa comm band, enjoy it! Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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