 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Contragirl
Date: 1999-01-24 03:34
I know marching is a long way off, but not if I'm selling my Bb. What should I play for marching? I want to play alto clarinet. I don't want to play the soprano clarinet or bass clarinet (no offense or anything, bass clarinets are too heavy for me to march with. People get a good laugh when I'm dragging the contra around. Soprano clarinets are too, I don't know, is competitive the word I'm looking for?) Alto is unusual for marching, but I really really want to play it. I'll push for it, but if he says no, is the percussion pit fun?
PS. Arnold (the basset hornist) I saw some basset horns in a magazine. They were cool! What kind do you play? (Yes that was my question)
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Author: A
Date: 1999-01-24 16:25
Don't waste your time. It can't be heard and all you'll do is exhaust yourself lugging it around. Stick to the Bb.
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Author: Contragirl
Date: 1999-01-24 21:40
A wrote:
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Don't waste your time. It can't be heard and all you'll do is exhaust yourself lugging it around. Stick to the Bb.
It's only the size of an alto sax. I'll make it be heard if I get one! Those things are so neat!
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Author: Fred McKenzie
Date: 1999-01-25 03:48
A wrote:
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Don't waste your time. It can't be heard and all you'll do is exhaust yourself lugging it around. Stick to the Bb.
A-
Although I play Bb while marching in High School, I played Bass Clarinet in College, and there were Alto Clarinets marching as well!
The Alto has a more penetrating sound than you might think. You can get even more sound if you have a full rank of them.
Fred
<a href=http://www.dreamnetstudios.com/music/mmb/index.htm>MMB</a>
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Author: Daniel
Date: 1999-01-25 04:20
Playing alto clarinet in marching band wouldn't be very productive.... no one would hear you unless you were on the sideline and you'd basically be doubling the alto saxes... marching band isn't supposed to be competetive, it's supposed to be teamwork.. the competition is supposed to be among the other bands..
I personally hated marching band and did pit percussion for two years... if you're hand-eye coordinated enough, the keyboard percussion is fun... especially when we did four mallet stuff.. i liked that... plus you get to stay in the air conditioning 5/6 of the time... which, being the wuss i am, was nice... :-)
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Author: Arnold the basset hornist
Date: 1999-01-25 07:23
It's a Uebel brand basset horn (german system). According to its serial number it is manufactured in 1962 (still in the GDR) althought I bought it 5 years ago (or 6 years? I have to check the bill) - it was displayed in the window of a music shop.
On german sys the standard nine fingers actuate to low E only, thus the 4 keys to reach low C are all to be operated by the right hand thumb. I think you can imagine how difficult I found to play with a neck strap - you cannot support the instruments position with your thumb when your're playing with the basset keys. For sitting there was a pin delivered which is mounted at the bell, and for playing while standing (I'm standing when practicing at home) I made my own extra long pin which fits into the same pin socket. And I allready played Mendelssohns 'Battle near Prague' (op. 113) with this long pin.
The original mouthpiece (1.10 mm * 27 mm) is nice to play together with recorders (like a contra bass recorder, one octave below the bass recorder) using the chalumeau register - paying piano meets the volume of the recorders easily.
At the beginning I had no idea where to get the reeds for this instument. First I tried to use a french type Bb clarinet reed (the german alto clarinet reeds are some more narrow than the french type alto clarinet reeds) and filed a lot away of it (enlargeing the cut) - awfull without reed copy machine. Next I ordered a package of alto clarinet reeds (mail order, via my music shop) and missed the strength a lot. Next, after comparing this samples, I bought alto sax reeds and cut away 1.6 mm at each side - this did work quite acceptable, even with one brand only.
After that all I looked for a 'more noisy' mouthpiece. Well, I have to tell you a little more about the music shops in my area. In Fürth, where I live (pop. 110000), there is a music shop which is not well sorted for clarinets (they have to order them if you search a new one) and they sell only a few reeds, thus they cannot afford a large selection. At Nürnberg (Nuremberg), approx. 8 km away, there is a large music store which has some instuments at display (and trial) and also sells reeds to most wind bands and wind orchestras (that's my translation to Blaskapelle and Blasorchester, the last term is usually used for better quality ones) in the area, unfortunately alto and bass clarinets are so rare used in Germany, this shop can order theese large clarinet reeds only, too. And a few hundred meters away there is another smaller shop which primary sells woodwinds (he's a yamaha instrument dealer, I think, and a woodwind repair man).
Well, at this small shop was a vandoren alto clarinet mouthpiece (1.39 mm * 23 mm) available. I 'ordered' it to be adapted to my neck's socket. He sugested to use alto sax reeds.
Next I started to practice for one of this concert pieces of Mendelssohn together with a clarinetist who plays a medium open mouthpiece - I was some too silent compared with him. Fortunately I read an advertisement in a music magazine (at the Nuremberg music library) of a littly company which copies lays to mouthpieces and could make completetly new ones, too. I ordered another vandoren mouthpiece with an open lay milled on it. This is the mouthpiece I'm using today (he put a bass clarinet lay on it, I think, 1.80 mm * 28 mm). With this mouthpiece I reached the limit to use sax reeds, too. Fortunately the music shop next to me (in Fürth) once got a wrong delivery, alto clarinet reeds (yeah!) and they worked fine. So I had to look where to find alto clarinet reeds, french type now. Now I now a music shop (It's 200 km away, Johanna Kronthaler's at Bad Neustadt/Saale, her husband is a teacher at the conservatory of Würzburg and plays basset horn, too.) which sells vandoren alto clarinet reeds, too. I also tried rico royal, finally I use vandoren 2-1/2 and cut a lot way at the sides (to make it a 'round type' meeting my sound preferances) and make the heart some more V-style.
Well, if you want to play the alto clarinet with such a mouthpiece now, just think of the price first ($500 I guess) and you'll have to practice the intonation for a month or two (maybee three).
And did you check for a strap to carry your contra? I'm thinking of a thing like the belts of a backpack. I've seen pictures of such a thing for bassoons. (Or do you have enough bassons when marching? - It's quite easy to transpose unless the basson parts are written in tenor clef.
Long storry I told, isn't it.
At the end: Why do most german clarinetist wear black shoes with shoe laces at a recital? [.erutagil erieht tegrof yeht esac ni tsuJ] - tell this joke question to Albert (after you've read the answer from right to left) - "copyleft" on this by me, (c) 1999.
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Author: Contragirl
Date: 1999-01-28 02:46
The thought of me marching with the contra makes me laugh! I can hardly carry it! We don't march double reeds. Maybe I should look into getting a curved contra, more of a marching horn. They probably aren't made for marching, but they look suitable. If I were to pick up alto clarinet over the summer, I would probably have it down in time for marching.
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Author: Arnold the basset hornist
Date: 1999-01-29 07:45
What's effectively the problem of carrying it?
- the weight? (should be [a lot?] less than one seventh of your weight)
- the clearance to the floor? (watch the mud when marching on a lawn, probably a k.o. criteria)
- the mounting point(s) where to put the hook of the carrying strap?
- no key guards (when hold at the right of your body/feet?
For the carrying strap I allways thought you would need a special one (perhaps design your special one) even for a more curved contraalto - just think of those carrying a four or five part drum set when maching. Probably you'll need some support from a girdle to your instrument, too.
(I do not recommend to put a gas filled ballon to your instrument for reducing the weight - or to put a wheel on the bottom like a 'bombardon'.)
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Author: Contragirl
Date: 1999-01-31 20:05
I can just see someone marching with a wheel on the bottom of their instrument. Learning alto sax, or playing alto clarinet would probably be the best thing for me, because I just saw the percussion stuff the other day...heavy stuff.
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Author: Arnold the basset hornist
Date: 1999-02-01 05:20
Well, here a sugestion how to carry a 25 pound clarinet from and to the stage (i.e. short distance, not maching) - based on the way I prefer to carry my basset horn. Furthermore I expect there is a socket for a pin at the bell.
For such a weight you'll need a handle (different to my basset horn which I can carry with one finger only, kept in ballance with the other hand). I thought of a wooden cylinder (approx. 14 cm long, 3 or 4 cm diameter, with a centerbore for the rope). You may wish to wrap some felt around it, covered with some linen. Chose the outside diameter for best heavy load carrying comfort to your hand. Make sure, the ends of the centerbore are smooth and rounded so they will not force you to replace the rope frequently.
Chosse a rope which can carry approx. 4 (four) times (that's a security factor) the weight of your clarinet.
Lead the rope through your handle and make a loop at each end. These loops are put from the bottom end over the pin - you may use the loose ends of the rope to prevent it from sliding down.
To determine the length of the rope (from loop to loop) it's some trial - easy if you know how you have to carry it: Carry it walking upright, one arm straight down holding the handle, the other hand holds (and ballences) the (upper) joint near your shoulder - thus the rope gives the required clearance to your instrument, to the floor (and steps) as well as to the ceiling (best when the mouthpice could be close to your head).
Another important thing is, how to lift it up: Do not bend your back for lifting it up! (May hurt intervertebral discs!) Elevate it just using your legs, keeping your back straight upright and your arm straight down.
If this method is still too hard for you, you may lock for a strap furniture movers use.
By the way, the magic 'one seventh of your weight' is the recommended limit for school bags of pupils I heard once. So untrained and still growing people should avoid carrying more for a long distance.
Nevertheless, if you put a wheel on your contra (I think you'll need another help to keep it in ballance an not running away - perhaps a lever form your belt to the axis) you may have to watch uneven survaces a lot (perhaps a spring which gives 10 cm tolerance will help). Try it!!! People may only smile (not laugh) if it works, and they would say "unusual solution - she may become a mechanics engineer".
By the way, what is the weight of your contra alto?
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Author: Contragirl
Date: 1999-02-02 01:17
How much does it weigh? I haven't the slightest clue. My toes tell me about sixty, but that's when the case smashed them this morning. Maybe around ten or fifteen without the case? I'm probably way off. It's not so much heavy as awkward to carry. Well, the instrument is owned by the school, so installing a wheel would be a bad solution. I wouldn't want to go through all of the trouble anyway. Why can't I march the contra? Well, why aren't pianos in marching band? Hee hee hee...
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Author: geo
Date: 2003-06-02 17:26
Hello Arnold,
I recently bought a 731 Uebel "DDR" wooden bell basset horn and been trying to find info on the year it was made. I've sent an email (in German) to the F.A. Uebel site, but no answer so far. Would you have any tips on where to find this info?
Btw, thanks for your comment, "you'll have to practice the intonation for a month or two (maybe three)", which makes me feel much better, it certainly is a different beast than a Bb. I'm afraid the only good accompaniment I would be able to muster at the moment would be for waterfowl hunting party, well, as long as the ducks or geese are not all too hard of hearing .
Gruesse Geoff
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-06-02 18:22
Contragirl -
If you sell your Bb, they'll give you a school instrument that will leak like a sieve. If you refuse to play Bb, they'll probably hand you a bell lyre -- 25 pounds of metal with a sound that pierces your eardrums. You carry on a heavy strap that puts a permanent crick in your neck, with a leather cup to put the lyre in which presses on your bladder.
Unless you can learn to play piccolo quickly, Bb clarinet is probably the easiest instrument to march with, not to mention better for your hearing than piccolo. If you want to march, live with Bb.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: jenna
Date: 2003-06-02 21:08
If you look above at the dates, this post is 4 years old and was unearthed by geo, regarding the basset horn.
jenna
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Author: contragirl
Date: 2003-06-03 01:09
Ah! hahaha, I am not the orignal, me thinks. :-P
--Contragirl, second generation
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-06-03 14:53
Why not take marching as an opportunity to learn and play the sax (alto or tenor)? You'll get to learn a new instrument at the school's expense, and you'll be heard (unlike the clarinets, who, let's face it, are merely window dressing in a marching band). Plus, you're less likely to bash in your teeth with a sax because the mouthpiece is closer to horizontal.
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Author: geo
Date: 2003-06-03 14:58
Shortly after posting this I recieved a friendly reply from Mr. Koenig from F.A. Uebel with the year (1980) and a bit of other info on the horn, (appears to have been originally sold to the former East German Orchertra of the NVA ("National Peoples Army") , a basset horn for marching??
Contragirl (II), sorry about any confusion by excavating this antcient relic, although Arnold still seems to post here, his email address on the link above bounced.
--Geoff
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Author: Arnold the basset hornist
Date: 2003-06-05 06:05
Well, Geo,
here was an pretty old message poping up, can you see, how yellowed this 'digital paper' allready is?
And my email-address changed meanwhile.
My basset horn has the signature B&S on it, this means "VEB Blechblas und Signalinstrumentenfabrik", where the Uebel was places from 1984 to 1992.
At the Uebel basset horns you'll find different low-C mechanisms. What does your right hand thumb mechnism look like?
(*) 3-Key clockwise down (and Eb next to the C/F key for the right hand little finger),
(*) or 3-Key counterclockwise down,
(*) or like mine: 4 Keys "slanted N", Eb = right upper, D = right medium lower, C# = left medium upper, C = left lower
Nevertheless, you should also contact Mr. Thomas Graß at Grevenstein,
Germany, he (more exactly now his wife) owns an Uebel basset horn with wooden bell, too.
And if you'r going to have vacations in Germany, (esp. 2 - 1 weeks before pentecost) ask Mr. Thomas Grass, if there a basset horn meeting agin.
Perhaps we'll meet one day at Grevenstein,
Arnold (the basset hornist)
Arnold (the basset hornist)
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Author: Arnold the basset hornist
Date: 2003-06-05 06:12
I forgot the to post the address of Thomas Grass:
Thomas Graß
Burgstr. 19
59872 Meschede
Germany
Well, Grevenstein is 'administratively' a part of Meschede, but still a few kilometers away from the 'physical' city limit of Meschede.
Arnold (the basset hornist)
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2003-06-05 07:56
Ken Shaw wrote...
"Unless you can learn to play piccolo quickly, Bb clarinet is probably the easiest instrument to march with, not to mention better for your hearing than piccolo. If you want to march, live with Bb."
Piccolo easier to march with than clarinet? I beg to differ.
Granted, I haven't marched with one, but I've marched with a flute, and a 12-minute field show isn't exactly pleasant to hold your arm up in that awkward position. Not to mention weather difficulties (wind, anyone?) and much more difficulty keeping your mouth and the mouthpiece aligned on a lousy, bumpy field.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: geo
Date: 2003-06-05 16:28
thanks for the reply Arnold!
Unfortunately, it looks like i just missed the Grevenstein basset horn fest. Perhaps next year, it sounds fun and perhaps by then i will be able to do more than woo ducks or geese with the basset horn. Meschede on the Ruhr? That's not all too far away, i spend most of the year in Tuebingen and Munich. If you have any info on the fest i would be interested (my email "gnoyes_ AT_viage.de", just replace the _AT_ with a @ , German or English is fine) and i would be glad to meet up at the fest.
I seem to have the right thumb "counter clockwise" C/C#/D version (low Eb thrid key RH little finger top row of the three roller keys... above two boehm-like bannana keys). That bit was easy and similar to my full boehm Bb, but otherwise it is my first attempt at the German system. The one i have appears to be a little bit older, (Mr. Koenig said 1980), from the time when G.R. Uebel and F.A. Uebel companies were merged into the VEB Holzblasintrumente Wohlhausen. It only says F.Arthur Uebel, Markenkirchen on the top joint and again with model & SN Made in G.D.R. on the bottom. I really like the horn, but i'm still not in control, my embouchure is not good and i have trouble with the sax like angle of the mouthpiece, it's still driving me as they say.
I'm not sure if i want to go that route, but what changes did you have to have made to the Alto mouthiece? So far I have had the best luck with the reeds (on the original very quiet Uebel mouthpiece) which look like they were shipped with the horn when it was new (G <dimond> S - the horn appears to have been played very little), but haven't found any of this brand in the shops .. I've picked up some AW basset reeds, but i'm still in the process of breaking them in.
Gruesse!
Geoff
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