 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Sternberg
Date: 2003-05-27 19:27
Hi All,
I'm new to the list, and I hope I'm not asking something that's been asked many times before!
I have recently returned to playing after a long (12 year) complete break. I was playing at Associated Board (UK) Grade 8+ standard when I gave up. My clarinet is a R 13 bought in 1987, and I am currently using a B45 mouthpiece. I've started on a box of Vandoren V12's, strength 3. I'd appreciate any comments on the following;
1. How do the V12's compare with the 'blue box' Vandorens in terms of strength. I'm finding the 3's a bit soft...but see my next point! When I gave up (aged 18) I was playing blue box 3's. However, I presume the muscles around my mouth have changed as well.
2. I've experimented with the mouthpiece that came with the R13, and find that the V12's seem a bit harder, and make a nicer sound, when I use this rather than the B45. Given that my B45 has seen better days, would it be a good idea to get a new mouthpiece, and why the slight difference in sound...I don't think I'm imagining it!
Sternberg
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-05-29 12:03
No I think the B45 is a pretty bad example of mouthpiece design. the B40 is really alot better and gives a warmer tone overall....the B45s all tend to shrillness expecially in the altissimo.
David Dow
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Vytas
Date: 2003-05-29 14:05
D. Dow wrote:
**I think the B45 is a pretty bad example of mouthpiece design**
Give me a break!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DezzaG
Date: 2003-05-29 14:19
I have to agree with David, so many of us have played B45's because of what our teachers suggested, but how misinformed were we!!! I will never go back, currently I am in the process of getting one of my new students off his! He does have a coldness in his sound, and YES the altissimo is shrill!
Don't just play B45 because somebopdy told you to, there can be so much better mouthpieces, especially ones by modern masters such as Grabner, Hite, Smith, Hawkins etc.
DezzaG
Currently a VERY big fan of his Grabner Zinner piece! Looking forward to getting Walter's personal Bass piece(for the last year or so) tomorrow!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-05-29 14:47
Let me just add a few background comments into the discussion:
Not all Vandoren B45s are bad, however finding a fine one tricky and requires a search most players don't have the resources for.
If a player is looking for an excellent sounding piece, the B45 can be superb, but obviously some players outgrow ...
"Given that my B45 has seen better days"...
leads me to conclude that either the piece is warped or chipped up pretty good.
Some pros use B45s is also true......however, they usually spend quite alot of time going through batches before deciding upon one.
I have found the measurements on ALOT of B45s quite inconsistent from one another. Less so among B40s ....in my experience the measurements I have taken from the B40s are overall more consistent with the 1.19mm opening given for this model.
It is also good to look at different equipment once in a while....with great makers like David Hite out there maybe this person may not even settle on a Vandoren piece. If price is a factor the Vandoren pieces are a good VALUE.
I also have an old B45 which is excellent from university, but when I was in France studying I went through literally 100s to get to this one!
The B40 tends to produce a more focused sound, and has a good ring on the sound. For someone returning to the clarinet this piece may have drawbacks as well....its up to the artist or player to make the final decision.
David Dow
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sue
Date: 2003-05-29 15:23
2 years ago I was in the same situation, playing after a long absence and I had been using the same set up as you but I now use a B45 lyre with V12 3 1/2. As I understand it 3 traditional and V12 3 1/2 are concidered equal in strength ( could someone expand on this?) I had the same experience with reeds and the B45 mouthpiece was a little to much for me. For me I find the reed is a bigger issue (I'm just starting to work on them). I've recently started lessons and my teacher (who makes mouthpieces) says for me right now what I using is fine and that what would be ideal for me is something between 3 and 3 1/2.
Sue
Post Edited (2003-05-29 15:34)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: beejay
Date: 2003-05-29 16:59
I am not as experienced a clarinetist as David Dow, but I disagree with his assessment of the B45. To each his own, but I like mine a lot. Since the B45 is such a standard, I'd suggest you get to know yours well, and find out what you are looking for in a mouthpiece before starting off on the difficult quest to find the perfect one. If you do a search on this bulletin board, you will find a lot of references to the B45. To answer your question about reeds, I extracted this from the Vandoren web site:
V.12 reeds are manufactured from cane tubes of the same diameter as those used for saxophone reeds. V.12 reeds are thicker at each end : Thickness at the tip: .10 mm (0.004 inch) Thickness at the heel: 3.15 mm (0.124 inches, hence the name V.12) In comparing strengths, a V.12 strength 4 reed is almost equal to a Traditional strength 3 1/2 reed.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cyso_clarinetist
Date: 2003-05-29 18:31
call me the far right wing conservative of clarinet politics but I do think all B45 mouthpieces are bad examples, that is unless they have been refaced. The finer mouthpieces out there right now are the Hawkins, Smith and Vandoren M15, and M30
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-05-29 18:52
Once again, different facings play different from each other. Amongst a batch of B45 pieces there will be pronounced differences in terms of intonation.
My former professor Guy Deplus sounded great on his B45 but recommended something quite different for me....he told me I may sound better on the B40 or the B45 dot. After much looking for pieces at the Vandoren factory and trial and area I found I liked the B40 best after blind fold testing for about a week.
Mr. Deplus still plays the B45 and sounds marvelous on it. The trick of the matter if you feel best on a facing, then stick with it. However, if tone and tuning are not so good-maybe a different facing will yield a better result!
I know from my time in France at Ecole Normale et Superieure that the majority of players in Paris at not into the B45 as much. That being said, sound is a personal matter and if one sounds great on a particular facing-hats off to them.
I also know the B45 Lyre is a superb facing and sounds terrific! It also requires a pretty strongly developed embouchure. Some players cannot manage this.....others can. It depends on the way a personal plays the clarinet....
As to product consistency some B45s are markedly inferior to others! I have seen some play with a darker ring than others. I have played some that are trash heap stuff...these being brand new!
Not every Kaspar is a jewel. The trick is to find which facing works well, if one is unhappy in any way with their sound they should seek maybe a new piece only after discussion with a teacher who can access how well he/she is playing.
I have played on some pretty awful Kaspars as well!!!
David Dow
Post Edited (2003-05-29 19:28)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-05-29 18:54
pS. THE player has to look more for the ideal piece rather than the perfect one! The mouthpiece does not play itself....
David Dow
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sternberg
Date: 2003-05-29 19:25
Thanks to all for your comments. I'll try some 3.5 and 4 V12's, and plan to test some other mouthpieces (including B45's) in the near future.
Cyso...I'm wondering the reasons for your comment that the Vandoren M15 and M30 are some of the "finer mouthpieces out there"...in what sense finer than the B40 or B45?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: skye
Date: 2003-05-30 23:23
I have recently changed mouthpiece and now use a Hite J which I really like, although it took some getting used to and I had to try a few until I found one I really liked.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: abrogard
Date: 2003-06-01 11:11
My mouthpiece is a 5RV, that's all I know. That's all that's written on it. The clarinet is a wooden one - a Buffet Evette.
I'm a really poor player. I have endless trouble with reeds. I use 2 and half strength and often from a box of ten I'll only find one or two I can sound easily straight out of the box. From that box I'll probably finish up only being able to use 5.
My high notes - anything above the G above the stave - sound screechy and piercing to me and I don't like playing them. I'd much rather muss around in the chalameau.
But I'd dearly love to be able to make those high clarinet sounds I hear from orchestras and the jazz greats but I've got no idea how to do it.
You guys seem to put so much emphasis on mouthpieces.
Are you all talking from the viewpoint of people with far-above-average ears and about minor differences in quality by excellent exponents or are you talking about something appreciable by the ordinary ear and the ordinary clarinettist?
i.e. Should I go looking for mouthpieces?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-06-01 13:12
Sternberg,
You may be ready to lay out a little dosh for a hand finished mouthpiece, better suited to you, and your playing time.
Tone and dynamics are important considerations, but the mouthpiece should allow you to play with some ease... it is difficult enough to get all the widdly bits together, at the same time without struggle.
Your mouthpiece should be selected with some care, and that means having several on hand, for immediate comparison.
The idea is to have something that allows you to practice longer.
Try one of our regular posters, Dave Spiegelthal, he is a 'refacer' of some skill (I have one of his that is nice for chamber music), perhaps he may be able to assist.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sternberg
Date: 2003-06-01 19:27
Thanks to all for your comments. I hadn't realised there was so much involved in mouthpiece design and, like many others, simply bought what my teacher recommended back in the mid-80's (the B45). The internet really has opened up the world of mouthpieces and reeds to me! A number of old colleagues who also previously used B45's have suggested trying the Hite 'D' mouthpiece, which seems to be in the right price range given that I need to get my R13 completely overhauled...it's amazing it survived being stored in my attic for nearly 10 years, but it needs a serious piece of maintenance to get it back to full working order!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: CK
Date: 2003-06-01 22:30
try the Lomax mouthpieces-www.lomaxclassic.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Benny
Date: 2003-06-02 00:33
If you have the money go for a Gregory Smith. I have one (Facing 1) and it is the best mouthpiece I have played on. With it I use Black Master 4 or sometimes a V12 4. I will be taking lessons from a new teacher in the fall and he wants me to get a Vandoren M15. Because he's with the symphony, he can get seven or eight at a time, whereas an ordinary civillian can only order three from most mail order catalogs. Yeah, if you decide to get a new mouthpiece try at least three of the same type before making a decision.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
