 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: jez
Date: 2003-05-19 14:45
If you've read these messages before you know that I've recently started playing the German system.
My current dilemma is with mouthpieces (so what's new?)
It's not so easy with the German system to try different models. The only ones available to try from the big makers are the Vandorens. I've got one of them and it works fine for what it is.
I've also tried having the mouthpiece that came with the instrument refaced to what I'm used to. Now while opening up the lay from a typical German style (tip opening .94) to mine (1.20) the rails, obviously needed thinning down. Instead of doing this from the outside I've decided to try this by opening up the slot, so it now takes ordinary French-style reeds instead of the, thinner, German style. This has given me a set-up that feels comfortable to play and allows me to explore the possibilities of the instrument without wondering if it's just the mouthpiece/reed combination that feels different.
My question is: what is the fundamental essence of the German style?
Surely it's not just the reed/mp combination. If that was the case we could all sound like Germans by putting a suitable mouthpiece on our French-style instruments. I think I'm achieving the right sound with the set-up i've got, but I know I can make more noise than what seems to be available with the 'echt' German mouthpieces I've tried.
Am I losing the plot here?
Surely there is more to the difference than the top end? On a recording that I have of the Meyer siblings they say that they try to combine the merits of the German & French systems. Maybe I'm approaching this from the opposite direction?
Any thoughts,especially from Oehler-system players, much appreciated.
jez
Post Edited (2003-05-20 10:14)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2003-05-20 06:18
jez - why are you using German system? For German/Austrian repertoire played in the BBC Phil??
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2003-05-20 08:06
"My question is: what is the fundamental essence of the German style?"
I'm not sure there really is one anymore. Dieter Klöcker doesn't sound anything like Sabine Meyer, who doesn't sound anything like Klaus-Heinz Steffens, etc. etc.
I'm not really sure what you're trying to achieve by switching to Oehler system? If your happy with the instrument and mouthpiece etc. then that's great.
By the way, I really recommend Heinz Viotto for German mouthpieces. He'll make whatever mouthpiece opening you want. Many German players use his mouthpieces.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jez
Date: 2003-05-20 13:01
diz,
that's right. We're going to play Beethoven, Brahms, Bruckner etc. on them.
Liquorice,
thanks for the advice. What's the situation in Switzerland? Do the players in German speaking parts use Oehler, French Boehm and Italian full-Boehm?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2003-05-20 13:27
In Switzerland most people play on Boehm clarinets, even in the German speaking parts. In orchestra we have a mixed group- 3 Boehm, 1 Reform-Boehm and 1 Oehler. We try to match each other's sounds, and don't seem to have any problem blending. A few examples:
Harnoncourt was suprised after several performances of a Schubert opera to disover that I play Boehm system (he had assumed I played Oehler). Karl Leister came last season to hear Siegfried, and specifically commented on how well we blended in all the clarinet duo sections. He was shocked to hear after the show that I play Buffet and my colleague plays on a Reform-Boehm Wurlitzer.
I'm not saying that there is no difference in the sounds of different clarinets. But, like you say, if you use certain mouthpiece/reed combinations, the differences between the instruments become less pronounced. That's why I was wondering why you have made the switch to Oehler system?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jez
Date: 2003-05-20 15:52
Liquorice,
We've not 'made the switch' completely, just for the appropriate repertoire. Our trumpets adopt the same policy with rotary-valve instruments. I find the sound more appropriate especially in Beethoven where it seems to blend better with a smaller orchestra.
I suppose we ought to consider Mahler & Strauss, but I think it'll be a while before we feel comfortable enough getting round the system and I think I'd feel that the level of volume I want to get might not be available.
Anyway I'd normally be on the E flat then and I only have the Boehm.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-05-21 11:51
Dear Liquorice: What kind of set up are you using? Be interesting to know if its a B40 or not or is it an american piece?
Regards
D Dow
David Dow
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2003-05-21 16:41
Jez- I can understand you wanting to use Oehler system for smaller orchestra Classical repertoire. I also feel that Boehm clarinets, especially with quite open mouthpiece facings, can easy "stick out" a bit too much in Classical repertoire. Our brass players use natural horns, trumpets and trombones when we play Classical operas. I start to feel that the best way for me to fit in would be to use a 5-keyed instrument! Good luck with your endeavours on the Oehler. By the way, are you playing on Wurlitzers?
D Dow- I play on a B40, and a Viotto (Boehm) facing.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jez
Date: 2003-05-21 16:47
Liquorice,
The first cl. has Wurlitzers. I've got a pair of Yamahas which look like an exact copy.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Katrina
Date: 2003-05-21 16:51
Hey Jez,
Just a nosy question...when an orchestra decides to do something like that (switch brands/systems of horns) do they pay or does the musician?
xoxo,
Katrina
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BARRY
Date: 2003-05-22 09:26
I entirely fail to understand why one should go over to Oehler system after a lifetime on the infinitely easier to play Klosé/Boehm.
It's not as if it will affect the tone or timbre at all.
Of course, if you change bore, mouthpiece, barrel, that's different but why on earth deliberately put one's reputation at stake by using Oehler in some works and Boehm in others.
Or maybe you're just a genius who likes difficulty, like my friend in the Garde Républicaine (where almost all the pieces are in Bflat-friendly keys) who would occasionally "forget" his Bflat and bring his A clarinet, transposing all the pieces at sight!
Good luck anyway
barry
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Liquorice
Date: 2003-05-22 12:03
Barry wrote: "I entirely fail to understand why one should go over to Oehler system after a lifetime on the infinitely easier to play Klosé/Boehm.
It's not as if it will affect the tone or timbre at all."
Certain things are easier to play on the Oehler system. For example- to play legato from F-F#-D (in both lower and middle octaves) is easier on Oehler system because of the fingerings. It's still possible on Boehm system, but MUCH more difficult to play a proper legato.
Oh, and Sabine Meyer doesn't sound like she finds the Oehler system too difficult. Obviously whichever system you are used to will be easier for you.
The timbre of Oehler system clarinets is also different, due to the different design of the bore. Of course much depends on your mouthpiece, etc. But it is certainly easier to achieve a more "covered" sound on a Wurlitzer than it is on a Buffet.
The most imortant thing is how you blow the thing. But if you are trying to achieve a specific sound then you should use whatever material will make it easier to obtain that sound.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-05-22 12:14
In my own experiments with the Oehler I agree with Liquorice on the tonal aspects of the beauty of sound of the German system instrument.
My current system of mouthpiece and reed goes very much toward this tonal ideal even if it is on the Beohm clarinet.
I prefer the volubility of the Boehm over the Oehler, but the way a player plays affects the sound to the greatest degree....
David Dow
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2003-05-22 22:45
Jez - my final question (or other Boehm users who also play Oehler) does the difference in fingering cause problems? (do you instantly switch both physically and mentally or is this a brain teaser initially).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: jez
Date: 2003-05-23 11:07
Katrina,
Instruments of an esoteric nature, Wagner tubas, oboe d'amore, alto flute, rotary valve trumpets etc. tend to be owned by the orchestra.
diz,
It's no more complicated than swapping between clarinet & sax which I'm used to doing. Also I learned to play the Albert system when I was a kid so it's not entirely unfamiliar.
Barry,
I disagree about the Boehm being 'infinitely easier' Some things work out easier on one and some on the other. A lot of pieces using the range at the top of the clarion and just above seem a lot easier to control on Oehler.
jez
Post Edited (2003-05-23 11:43)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
