 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: wjk
Date: 2003-05-18 00:42
I apologize if this is an "esoteric" post--- please do not read this post if you do not like "esoteric" posts-----------------------
Can anyone give some advice re: the best CD/amplifier/speaker combination to play clarinet/orchestral music (on CDs)? I am experimenting with B&W and Bose speakers---I think my present amplifier (only 20watts) may be underpowered, however, I do not play my CDs very loud.
Thank you.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-05-18 01:58
You want "best"? Then why not go to an audiophile store with 10 or 20K in your pocket?
They'll show you "esoteric".
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-05-18 02:14
The limiting factor in most playback systems is really your room.
You could supply 50 clean watts per channel with the Adcom 535.
These are available on eBay under $200 in working order.
The loudspeakers will have the most coloration of any component.
Personally, I like the B&W line, including the diminutive B&W DM 302 is a very neutral and inexpensive entree to clean sound.
I would not consider buying Bose gear, but some people love them.
If your CD player is built within the last three years, it shoud be alright.
If it is more than 5 years old, the Digital converter may not be current.
Buying this stuff new is maddening; the depreciation is brutal.
If you have money to burn -
Sony makes some good sounding players, JVC got my Wallet vote.
Clean line stage preamp (pick one that's quiet) Aragon 4004MkII
B&W 801 Series II
http://www.sensiblesound.com/
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-05-18 02:48
Hi,
One of my favorite subjects!!!! ![[up]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley24.gif)
I have three different Yamaha surround receivers (in three different locations in the condo), coupled with either Large Advents (some classics that I have had for years), or small Advents hooked to a Cambridge Sound Works (CSW) powered sub-woofer. Any CD player will do.
The CSW refurbished items on eBay are real bargins. These days, you can spend $600 - 700 for a very good entry level stereo - add the surrounds as you have more money - that would sound great. This is more money than I have in my home office setup that really sounds terrific. For a main unit that could be a lease-breaker, spend about twice that amount.
The quality of sound curve flattens at anything over the amounts I am suggesting and IMHO, you would be spending a lot of extra $$$s for a small gain.
As in clarinets, stay with the Big 4 (Yamaha, Harmon Kardon, Sony, and any other number of terrific units). As far as speakers, in the old days of large cabinets, infinite baffles, and electrostatics, speakers were pieces of furniture. Now with the sub-sat systems, you can have a better sound for less money and with a very small footprint.
While not trying to start a battle on the BB here, I think you would do much better with some nice components rather than a one-piece, has-everything unit.
HRL
PS I never cared for Buffet, sorry, Bose Speakers that much and think there are much better units out there for much less.
Post Edited (2003-05-18 03:03)
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Author: Clarence
Date: 2003-05-18 03:14
If you are upgrading your speakers, I would go for Klipsch speakers.
If you are buying a new system:
Any cd player will do.
Try for at least 80-100 watts RMS per channel. (any of the major manufactor will do)
Klipsch speakers are available at high end retailers like "Tweeter". A pair of small bookshelf speakers for under 450.00 .
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Author: rbell96
Date: 2003-05-18 09:29
I like Mission & Kef Speakers.
Arcam (not sure if you have it in the US) make fantastic hi-fi equipment. Marantz and Sony are also very good.
Rob
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Author: David Peacham
Date: 2003-05-18 09:53
Have a look at www.linn.co.uk. Scottish company with loads of dealers in the USA.
As an Englishman, I hate to recommend anything from Scotland, but it is fantastic kit. Ask to hear a Linn Classik (yes, that's how they spell it), which is a CD/tuner/amplifier in one small box. About £1000 here, which would be around $1500 US. Its only fault is that it is a little underpowered; I use it to drive a pair of big Mission speakers, but I can't turn it up as loud as I would like for big choral works.
This is MUCH better kit than anything at a comparable price out of Japan, believe me.
No, I'm not anti-Japanese - I play a Yamaha clarinet.
-----------
If there are so many people on this board unwilling or unable to have a civil and balanced discussion about important issues, then I shan't bother to post here any more.
To the great relief of many of you, no doubt.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2003-05-18 11:08
Remember that a poor signal into good speakers gives you a doubly poor output, because the faults will be reproduced as well as the music. To comment on your remark about your amplifier being underpowered, it depends on how good the amplifier is. The main reason for buying a very powerful amplifier is that you only use the portion of it where the sound is least distorted. A decently designed 20w amplifier, in my opinion, is better than a badly designed 100w amplifier. So start by getting a good amplifier and don't pay too much attention to the manufactuer's blurb about power output. I agree with David Peacham's advice. Linn equipment is superb. With apologies for being chauvinistic, I think British hi-fi equipment is among the best in the world, particularly the amplifiers. If you can, listen to Creek, Arcam or Rega at the cheaper end, or Quad, Linn and Naim at the top. You can save money without sacrificing quality by getting a basic Philips CD player. The Philips mechanism is used in many higher-end CD players. If you need an old fashioned record turntable, the best are Linn (expensive) and Rega. Speakers are like clarinet mouthpieces. You have to try many before you find the right ones for you. Take your favorite record and listen critically for a sound that is not shrill at the top and doesn't boom at the bottom.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-05-18 11:32
Hi,
It looks like I am somewhat of a cheapy compared to the equipment that several folks above have suggested. While several of the brands are outstanding for performance, they are very pricey. My goal was to offer a low end which would suffice plus an upgrade amount. For what some of the people above are suggesting just for the power unit, I'd put together a complete system - but that has always been my mantra.
All the advice about amplifiers (probably best to use a receiver which these days will probably be a surround) is correct. The purists like to tout "a wire with gain."
Reports on Mission speakers have been good but again, it is the sound you like that should be your guide in selecting any unit. Remember though, if you want the lowest bass, you need a lot of claen power in the amp and either a large speaker cone or an amplifier sub-sat unit - this is why I have never like Bose, clean sound but no real bottom end.
I'm not sure that I would go to places like Bestbuy to hear comparison systems although they used to have a real cool room where you could switch between several sets of speakers. Try to find the local stereo shop although they are starting to go the way of the local music store which is a real pity.
I still am very high on Yamaha receivers and I have had many setups in my life and pound for pound, these are among the best valued units. There are a lot of choices and in most ways these days, if you stay with a major brand, you can't go wrong.
HRL
PS Whatever units you get, insist on a 30 day return which now makes Bestbuy and Cambridge Sound Works a good choice as they accept return with not a whimper. How speakers sound in the showroom is not usually the way they sound in your home.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-05-18 11:32
I don't agree with just any cd player. Instead, get a dvd player since these play cds and allow you to hear/see dvd source music/vid. The best "speakers" are a good set of headphones.
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Author: Ralph
Date: 2003-05-18 11:48
I'll agree with S-B on the B&W 302s. They are a great speaker for the money. Another source of information is "Sterophile" magazine. Every 6 months they publish their list of "recommended components". While most of the list is esoteric and pricey, there are recommendations for receivers and components that may be considered good values. They also have a website at "www.stereophile.com". Good luck !!
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-05-18 13:22
Ralph wrote:
> I'll agree with S-B on the B&W 302s. They are a great speaker
> for the money. Another source of information is "Sterophile"
> magazine. Every 6 months they publish their list of
> "recommended components". While most of the list is esoteric
> and pricey, there are recommendations for receivers and
> components that may be considered good values. They also have
> a website at "www.stereophile.com". Good luck !!
Doesn't anyone go down to their audiophile store and just listen? Even here in the city of Detroit in the rust belt we have a few, and you can listen to total systems from around $1500 or so (including a turntable) to near 20K (heck, just the speaker wires run $600 on some of those systems).
Then you can make up your mind on price/performance/controls, etc. As to power required ... it's going to depend a lot on your speakers. There are high-efficiency and low-efficiency speakers, impedance curve, and a host of other variables that make up their "sound". Anyone remember AR-3a's? Great speakers for their day but they just sucked the power out of your amp.
Choosing good stereo equipment is even worse than choosing clarinets for someone who wants "the best" (wjk didn't give us any budget). Each component, even the wires if you want to believe some, affects the sound to a lesser or greater degree. If you're into vinyl you've also got a turntable & cartridge to worry about.
Then you take the system home, install it, and give it a weeks listening on trial. Maybe the interplay of components sounded great at the store, but at home ...
Sound familiar?
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-05-18 14:20
Mark,
I remember AR 3a's very well which was one reason I became an Advent fan early on - more effecient and a good bit cheaper. I agree that a few trips to the stereo store is good. Here in Toledo there is just one really good one, Jameison's left as Paragon has gone out of business. Ann Arbor used to have several good ones as well.
With the impact of e-commerce on all things, music stores, stereo stores, CD/record stores, etc. have really taken a heavy hit. This does not make it very easy on buyers that would like to listen. I know that I took a long time to pick speakers. Boston Acoustics and KLH were some of my favorites (several of those I have listed were Henry Kloss designs so you can see why I prefer the Advents).
I think wjk is close to NYC so there are plenty of places for shopping available.
HRL
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-05-18 14:22
McIntosh makes sells and installs the most esoteric systems available.
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Author: funkymunky
Date: 2003-05-18 14:47
All you need is a good equalizer. I run my recordplayer through an equalizer to the cheapest guitar amp available using the 8ohm speaker out to a 12" speaker.
By itself the guitar amp sounds like crap. When the 8" speaker cutsoff and the 12" starts to work it gives the sound alot more depth and clarity. Add an equalizer ...sounds 3 times as loud, no noisy background , crystal clear in all Hz.
Sooo no matter how cheap your system is all you need is and equalizer to sound good. My system was free because I needed the amp anyway and was given the EQ.
If your going to spend lots of money on a system a new good EQ must make it play like a dream.
Reminds me I had a very nice car system with an EQ and amp. It was insanly loud , you could blow your eardrums with crystal clear music. Its all in the EQ.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-05-18 15:23
Hank Lehrer wrote:
> Here in
> Toledo there is just one really good one, Jameison's left as
> Paragon has gone out of business. Ann Arbor used to have
> several good ones as well.
I go to the Dearborn branch of Almas weekly ... They're doing just fine. I was talking to my friendly salesguy there last week asking him how they were doing in the advent of on-line shopping & the economy, and he said just fine. They have a small but steady and devoted clientele (and can tell me exactly what I've bought from them over the years, too - it used to be on 5x7 card, now it's in the computer, and they transcribed everything!).
I've got old Advent Laureates as extension speakers on my main stereo - just fine for casual listening.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-05-18 15:24
funkymunky wrote:
> All you need is a good equalizer.
LOL! Gawd, I wish that were true!
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Author: Jerry
Date: 2003-05-18 22:27
Someone a few replies up mentioned good quality headphones are good to have. I concur! The sound quality of good $100 +/- headphones can rival that of a $1,000 plus speaker system. One of these is the Grado SR-60 which has consistently received very high reviews, for less than a hundred bucks, and you don't have to worry about your spouse or neighbors!
It sounds like your question was trying to focus on what audio equipment might be particularly "clarinet-friendly" in the characteristics of its response. I would think a speaker system without any exaggerated highs, and a design more like a ribbon tweeter or a soft-dome tweeter as opposed to a pizzio or a horn-tweeter. I have a pair of Klipsch (model irrelevant for discussion) and while I like their overall sound and high efficiency, I would think they are not as clarinet-friendly, as say, Boston Acoustics, generally. Some designs been have been known to exaggerate some upper end tonal characterisitcs, creating excessive sibilants or harshness.
The frequency response specs., even the response curve, cannot reveal all the tonal subleties between speakers that can be heard when listening.
Accuracy is perhaps most important speaker characteristic (as reflected in as flat a frequency response as possible, a good low end extension, low distortion), and at least moderate efficiency. Consumer Reports provides an annual update on all of these characteristics for speakers. Short of going to the high end publications like Stereophile, you could not go wrong with Consumer Reports top several recommendations for both speakers and receivers.
Jerry
The Villages, FL
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-05-18 22:46
C'Mon Mark...
An Equalizer really does make the most out of an 8-trak.
As with most fishing expeditions, this question was so open ended as to offer nothing salient.
For a slight additional charge, anything is possible.
Hi-Fi is still a bastion of hyperbole over substantive proof, wjk's question can't be constructively approached without a budget constraint.
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Author: pzaur
Date: 2003-05-18 23:56
While I'm not quite the audiophile that some of us here are, this is a geat forum to look into when looking for new equipment. Of course, as with any forums, there are the diehards who will swear by a particular brand. As I said though, this is a great forum to look into. Lots of information regarding all types of audio/visual equipment.
http://www.hometheaterspot.com/html/index.php
Here's another good one. Lots of reviews and opinions throughout the site. It's also got quite a large section on DVD players and the chroma bug (only some progressive-scan players have this bug).
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/main.html
pat
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Author: jce
Date: 2003-05-19 11:52
I think that one of the best values in speakers is Paradigm. They are Canadian and not to awfully expensive. I just bought a pair of their small Active Study/20 speakers and they are very nice sounding for clarinet, or anything else for that matter. Furthermore, they have amplifiers built in—125-watts on the woofer/midrange and 50-watts on the dome tweeter. If you get a CD player with volume control, you’ve got a complete system. Of course, if you want powerful deep bass, they work nicely with a subwoofer. In fact they have a high-pass filter that can be switched in for use with a subwoofer. Check them out.
http://www.paradigm.ca/Website/SiteReferenceProduct/RModels/RefActive/activeSeries.html
Best regards,
John Elison
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-05-19 12:28
Trying to evaluate a stereo system(all components) is about as subjective as evaluating mouthpieces and barrels.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-05-19 12:31
Asking "What's the best stereo equipment?" is like asking "What's the best house?" It's all personal preference. Some people can be well satisfied with modest equipment, while others, for whatever reason, want to listen to FM radio by spending more money on their own equipment than it would cost me to build an FM radio station.
It's sort of like "What's the best Clarinet?" Why, the one you like best, à la wine and cigars.
Regards,
John
"The best is the enemy of good enough."
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Author: msloss
Date: 2003-05-19 12:46
WJK,
For what it is worth, I mix chamber music including clarinet work (such as David Hattner's album) on B&W and Dynaudio speakers with very satisfying results.
The whole issue of a "good" system is (a) price dependent and (b) EXTREMELY room dependent. Just as your clarinet playing experience is different in depending on the acoustic space, your stereo system will load the room in ways that favor one type of technology (horns, ribbons, electrostats, etc.) over another.
Mark C. was actually being conservative on the price range for "esoteric" systems. I could probably describe a $500K system without working up too much of a sweat.
Sooooooo, what's your budget and what's your room like? Bet we could throw some good ideas out based on the specs that would be very fair to your clarinet CDs.
Cheers,
Mark
(p.s. My vote for efficient use of capital would be to buy the Aston Martin Vantage with the built-in Linn system. There -- problem solved).
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Author: msloss
Date: 2003-05-19 12:50
Well, guess I should have read down the list of postings to see that the related thread was closed out. Hank makes a good suggestion -- get to a boutique, but if you have any other questions, feel free to email me. Audio is a passion for me and I'm always looking for new proselytes.
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Author: gerry
Date: 2003-05-19 16:07
What ever happened to Wharfedale? Used to be the best and most "Musical" speaker from Britain.
I would love a pair of Klipsch Horns if I could afford them or had the room.
Gerry.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-05-19 16:12
I tried to listen out the substantial price difference between a Meridian CD player and a bunch of others (Arcam, Marantz, Crown), and ended up spending the extra money. And when I got a tax refund, I blew it on Stax Lambda electrostatic headphones. Talk about a scary-good combination.
For my computer, I'm very happy with the Cambridge one-up-from-the-bottom subwoofer/satellite speakers. Really nice for orchestral music while surfing the web.
My "hi-fi" setup is many years old and hopelessly out of date, with a NAD receiver and B&W speakers. I'm keeping it until it dies.
Mark Loss is being conservative on even a $500K system. If you're so inclined, you can spend well over $1K on a power cord, from the wall socket to the power conditioner, and from the power conditioner to each component, and speaker wires in pure silver can go for $1k per foot and up. Then you have to get your components rewired in silver, and have the Wilson company (which only makes speaker systems to custom order) come to your house and design the system for your room (which will need at least $50K of acoustical treatment first).
There's no end to the insanity, and if you read The Absolute Sound, you know that you need to replace at least two major components every month to keep up, plus have a specialist come in to position everything to within 0.000001" and apply special exotic rubber "dots" to each component to deaden resonance. And even then, there's just one place in the room where one person can hear the system the way it's supposed to be heard.
I've gotten great pleasure listening to great musicians on acoustic records through a wind-up player with a morning glory horn, and I've listened to wonderful concerts on short-wave radio through continuous hash. The ear compensates.
Go to a good store, find something you like and live with it.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-05-19 17:07
Ken,
I have a very decent stereo in my home office and I just run the stereo output of the computer soundcard to a spare AUX input on the receiver. No need to settle for "the Cambridge one-up-from-the-bottom subwoofer/satellite speakers. Really nice for orchestral music while surfing the web." Just take that old hi-fi and things can really sound great. With all the streaming from great classical and jazz stations, the use of the old folded dipole FM antennae are just about gone and you can have fine music all the time.
HRL
PS I seem to always listen to WQRX in NYC and KPLU in Tacoma - great classical and jazz stations. I have KPLU on right now and it is really kickin' - a driving arrangement of Just a Closer With Thee!!!!!!!
Post Edited (2003-05-19 17:21)
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-05-19 17:53
Hank -
WQXR has too many commercials, with too much singing in them, and the announcers are a bit too get-up-really-close-and-puff-mint-mouthwash-in-your-face in style, but they do play the good stuff. The New York Times keeps it going as a matter of noblesse oblige. WNYC is a bit on the rocks, but they do have some live music and live-recorded concerts, and the Left-Fringe WBAI has opera and early music on Sunday mornings. Under the circumstances, things are OK in NYC.
I find myself listening to lots of musicians who weren't recorded particularly well -- Toscanini, Lipatti, Cortot, Kreisler. What counts is the artistry, not the sound.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-05-19 19:55
Hi Ken,
Then maybe the BBC or Canadian Radio 2 might suffice. I live close enough to Windsor to get the latter and do enjoy a different slant on the news as well.
I have become very disenchanted with the local PBS stations. Too much top 100 classics and 3 hours of morning and 2 1/2 of evening news is just too much.
HRL
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-05-19 20:34
I built my own speakers a few years ago from plans in Speaker Builder magazine. The cost was quite modest and the sound is great. But for clarinet I still say you can't beat listening with headphones.
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Author: Phat Cat
Date: 2003-05-20 02:38
I’ve wondered when esoteric audio would arise on this BB. It is perhaps the only subject which generates more pseudo-scientific techno babble than clarinet set-ups. Replete with their own buzzwords and fuzzwords, self-anointed “golden ears” pontificate to each other about the “amazing” differences they can detect. Virtually none of this is substantiated by controlled, double-blind tests.
The few double blind tests that have been performed repeatedly show that almost no one can detect the supposed differences between amplifiers, speaker wire, etc. For example, a test performed within the last few years showed that although listeners (including golden ears) were absolutely certain that they heard differences between an original CD source and MP3 version ripped at modest sampling rates, statistically they could not. In fact, one golden ear was able to distinguish the two, but he consistently got them reversed!
The original poster wants to listen to recordings of the clarinet. In the era of pre-digital audio this was actually challenging since the unique overtone series of the clarinet mercilessly exposed wow/flutter of tape decks and turntables. In the digital era, things are much better. A sound system that is good for music in general (and possibly home theater as well) will be good for clarinet music.
The human ear is extremely non-linear in frequency response, being much less sensitive at the low and high ends. Moreover, this non-linearity gets worse as the overall sound level gets softer. One consequence is that a very slight increase of volume in even a perfectly linear sound system will sound noticeably better: the low end will seem fuller and the highs clearer and more extended. In fact a poorer system played louder will often sound better to the untrained ear, which is why audio salesmen crank up the volume--to “bring out” the highs and lows.
Several of the previous posts accurately sort out audio fact from marketing hype and mystical nonsense. The loudspeaker is the only component that actually produces sound and it does so by mechanical means that have levels of non-linearity and distortion that are orders of magnitude above the electronic components. Buy the best sounding speakers you can find; there is often little correlation with price. Best sound correlates very strongly with flat frequency response, including off-axis, and low distortion. Take recordings of music you’ve heard live and listen at moderate volumes. The interaction of a speaker with room acoustics is extensive, producing enormous peaks and valleys at certain positions in the room. After listening to the speakers at the dealer’s shop, get them to allow you to try them out in your own listening room with a return/exchange privilege.
A current receiver/amplifier and CD player from any reputable manufacturer will be indistinguishable from their high-end counterparts by almost anyone in almost every real listening room. Don’t believe me or the golden ears: believe your own ears. Just be aware that it is extremely difficult to level match equipment outside of a laboratory, and it is very easy to bias a comparison (deliberately or not) by making one setup ever so slightly louder; most ears will find the louder one better in all sorts of nebulous ways.
Get a combined DVD/CD player and make sure it has progressive DVD output. Ignore DVD audio and SACD; these are multi-channel audio formats that haven’t caught on.
As to the power of an amplifier/receiver, anything in the 20-100 watt per channel range is adequate unless you have a very large or very dead room. Unless you have unusually inefficient speakers, you’ll rarely drive the amp above a few watts especially with orchestral music. What happens with most amps when you try to play too loud is lots of inharmonious distortion. To double acoustical volume requires a 10-fold increase in power and a doubling of power (3db) is the least you’ll be able hear. So if you want to break your lease with old Pink Floyd albums you’ll need several hundred watts, if not more.
I have good hearing and musically trained ears and auditioned many setups in all price ranges. My best story was the high-end dealer who was extolling the virtues of his $60,000 speaker system but couldn’t even hear that one of the drivers was fried. I found the Paradigm Active Studio 20 also mentioned by a previous poster to be the most accurate speaker regardless of price. They are powered book shelf monitors so they fit it a normal room without taking it over, and can be driven by a preamplifier (they also come in an unpowered version). They have enough bass for chamber music and orchestral music at moderate levels, but as the previous poster mentioned you can supplement them with a (real) sub woofer. I use the Paradigm powered 15” sub that is flat to 18hz. Besides being good for movie sound effects, I am amazed at how much sub-sonic information there is on many digital classical recordings. While not distinctly audible, this information provides “air” and “space” to recordings. I highly recommend getting a (real) sub if your budget and space permit.
I listen to most classical music in simple 2 channel stereo with the Paradigms and the accuracy is amazing. Just beware, with a system this accurate you'll hear keys clicking and many other features of recordings you never noticed, both good and bad. As with another poster, I use a high-end Yamaha receiver to drive a 7-channel acoustical and movie surround environment. When you’re in the mood, it’s a great fun to listen to Gregorian chant in a cathedral or a jazz combo in a small club. Not to mention what it does with the soundtrack for The Matrix.
You could purchase an excellent sounding system for listening to clarinet and orchestral music comprising a mid-level Yamaha receiver, the un-powered Paradigm Studio 20s and a DVD/CD player for well under $2000, maybe closer to $1500 if you shop well. Figure another $1000 or so for a (real) powered sub and you’ll be in sonic heaven.
Note that whatever system you acquire, your ears will adjust to it over time. Your mind will tend to make adjustments for its non-linearities and you will eventually hear it as flat. This is what causes some folks to perceive that other systems, even those more accurate, sound off or not as good as “old faithful.”
One final note on Bose equipment. It is overpriced and impossible to get at a discount because Bose controls the dealers and prices very carefully. I’ve listened to a lot of it over the years and it’s not nearly as bad as most of the critics say. Some of it is actually quite decent. The biggest thing it has going for it is SAF. This is the Spouse Acceptance Factor for old-fashioned guys who want a multi-channel stereo system but whose girlfriends/wives refuse to allow the rack of equipment and speaker towers into the living room or family room.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-05-20 03:24
Phat Cat,
You are right on with all of the advice above. Absolutely correct on the double blind stuff; I think those tests were in Stereo Review a few years back. I miss that magazine a lot.
One thing to add though is when one goes into a stereo store, take a couple of CDs that you know very well. Have them played but first make sure that you try the speakers:
1. In a stereo configuration and not surround - usually, the bulk of your music is going to come from the front right and left speakers anyhow.
2. Be sure that the tone control are set to the flat position.
3. Make certain that the loudness control on the receiver is in the OFF position (I never have the loudness on, except for very low volume settings).
All too often a salesman will use a top quailty Telearc CD by the Cincinnatti Pops with lots of terrific great and grand effects. Level the playing field by using your own CD and set things up like in steps 1 - 3 above.
Better yet, burn a CD using cuts of your favorite seclections. I am getting ready to buy a new car and I have a Car Stereo Audition CD prepared. I used it just yesterday and as I put it in the car player the salesman tried to boost the treble and bass. I stopped him and then found he has a Bose system at home.
Don't expect to find all the equipment in one visit. Read lots of reviews and then go hear the real things.
HRL
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-05-20 04:04
Phat Cat - you're boundless enthusiasm for the ars esoterica is amazing ... thanks again, very enjoyable and informative - as was your MIDI dissertation.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2003-05-20 13:21
Wasn't it Flanders and Swan who spoke of Hi-Fi so hi that the only thing that could appreciate it was a passing bat?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-05-20 13:38
"All the highest notes, neither sharp nor flat
(The ear can't hear as high as that)
Still, I ought to please any passing bat
With the high fidelity."
Flanders & Swann, "A Song of Reproduction" in the album "At the Drop of Another Hat"
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Author: beejay
Date: 2003-05-21 05:50
Thanks Ken, I must have heard that one 30 years ago, and I'm delighted to find the reference. I met Flanders once in Buenos Aires. He was even offstage one of the funniest people I've ever known.
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Author: Tim K
Date: 2003-05-21 15:12
Want good sound really cheap? Get the little mono table radio designed by Henry Kloss (I think they're about $100 at Audio Advisor) and hook up the CD player of your choice.
I have a carefully chosen, far from inexpensive stereo system, and I always marvel at the sound from the Kloss radio. It's not as good as my big system, but it's enjoyable listening.
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Author: Ray
Date: 2003-05-21 17:26
Thank you, Phat Cat for an amazing post. All the truth and nothing more, and written so well!
I used to enjoy the tweako magazines like Stereophile (for the absurdities) but real, useful information came from The Audio Critic.
I have let my subscription lapse for a couple of years - is The Audio Critic still published?
Thanks,
Ray
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-05-21 17:30
Hi Ray,
The late Henry Kloss was the K in KLH, a primary designer for the AR3, the founder of Cambridge Soundworks, and the designer of the speakers that I have been the touting so much, the Advent.
Just like his radio, all his products were gems at a resonable price.
HRL
PS Here is a link http://www.onhifi.com/features/20020215.htm
Post Edited (2003-05-21 17:32)
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Author: jce
Date: 2003-05-22 02:05
I also highly recommend the late Henry Kloss’ Cambridge Soundworks. I am using a couple of their older 12” powered subs with my Paradigm Reference Active/20s. Like the AR-3a, Cambridge Soundworks subs are acoustic suspension and have exceptionally tight, clean bass down to 30Hz. My first pair of real speakers were AR-3a’s back in 1971. Today, Cambridge Soundworks represent an honest value in terms of performance vs. price.
Best regards,
John Elison
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-05-22 05:29
Ken Shaw ...
LOL - that reminds of a particularly absurb, though hilarious, thread that ended up in a Limmerick competition here a while back, remember?
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-05-22 18:23
If music's your love and delight,
But triple time makes you uptight,
Perhaps, on the whole, a
Discrete hemiola
Will help the rhythm come out right.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-05-22 19:44
I didn't know Ken Shaw could rhyme,
So witty and clever - quite sublime.
When a rhythm is confusing
And all logic you are losing,
It's best to just play it cut time ...GBK
Post Edited (2003-05-23 03:51)
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-05-22 20:08
Rhyme and rhythm, the two are close
Hence these poems, I suppose
One can't have one without the other
It's like a sister without a brother
Henry
Post Edited (2003-05-22 20:11)
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2003-05-22 23:23
KS --
". . . on the whole, a . . . hemiola"
Bravo! Easily a 10-pointer. ROTFLOL, or (less succinctly):
Alas, alack! Oy, vey! Zut alors!
Poetical posters are jousting once more.
Diz just had to foment 'em
And start the momentum.
Now I'm laughing out loud on the floor!
Todd W.
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Author: David
Date: 2003-05-26 00:39
Nice to see Wharfedale getting a mention, Gerry. I use Pacific Pi10s. Maybe not state of the art*, but a nice pure, but warm sound. The speakers themselves are small, but feel well made and weigh about half a ton each.
They can handle anything. Embarrassingly, when I first connected them up, I'd left the volume a shade too high, and the first drumstroke of my test piece (The Tide Is High - Blondie), nearly blew the opposite wall out.
My concessions to audio snobbery extend only to using decent interconnects, and biwiring the speakers. The basic Sony CD player and amp were not expensive, and would see off most other systems this side of the cost of an house. My £5 from a junkshop turntable rounds it all out.
David
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Author: Hiroshi
Date: 2003-05-26 14:09
There is 'one-bit' digital stereo system issued by Sharp.
http://sharp-world.com/corporate/news/001101.html
It is not so expensive as 24 bit high frequency sampling systems.
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The Clarinet Pages
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