 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Lisa_UK
Date: 2003-05-15 10:41
Hi there,
I've got the opportunity of buying a Selmer Centered Tone, serial number R15xx - which I believe from the serial numbers list on this excellent website to be a 1958 model. The instrument has recently been serviced, and has a 1 year guarantee. I've played it and it seems like a nice instruement, very free blowing and a nice warm tone, right up my street. It's in nice condition, a little bit of wear on the keys obviously but nothing that looks too bad, and the "centered tone" markings are still very clearly visible on both joints.
The seller is asking £170 (about $300, I think) for it - is this a good deal do you think? I've always hankered after an old Selmer but I don't want this to affect my judgement. I don't have a huge amount of money to spend on an instrument, and I certainly can't afford a new clarinet - but at the same time I don't want to end up with a complete turkey.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-05-15 11:55
If -
The body has no repairs to the wood
(no pins to secure cracks, no chips out of the tenons or receivers)
And -
You have a 'large bore' mouthpiece included so that you may play the instrument in tune (Ed Pillinger can help at the cost of 100 quid)
Then -
170GBP is quite reasonable
Be advised that these instruments can be shrill in an ensemble unless taken under a firm control.
You will certainly be heard!
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Author: icecoke12
Date: 2003-05-15 11:55
Well, check out ur local store and try instruments around that price range and compare?
Try as many 2nd hand instruments as you can to compare.
Better still, get someone with more experience to try for you?
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Author: Fred
Date: 2003-05-15 12:04
$300 is cheap for a Centered Tone in playing condition. I wouldn't expect too many mouthpiece problems with it; it's certainly not the problem that a B&H 1010 is. I'd grab it before someone else does - you could easily get your money back (plus more) by reselling it.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-05-15 13:22
Good advice Fred, et al, re: a very good price.[Rhymes, doesn't it??] At the moment I have only 2 CTs. I found my best in a music store, well serviced, and via trading "horses" [not dogs!] have about 400 in it. It and my L7 are my best, seldom played tho, my bass is in greater demand! Yours is a later model, mine are P's. I've not tried out many, but they MIGHT be as variable as the Buffets seem to be. Hunt for the best mp selection, I have a couple that play well for my needs. Go to our "best" mp makers for advice/trials. How it may play for you in various situations is "up to you", it is capable for all of mine. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Lisa_UK
Date: 2003-05-15 18:22
Hi everyone, thanks for all your advice so far.
I couldn't see any repairs, pins, or cracks in the wood, but one thing I did notice was a *very* slight wobble on the middle tenon. I really do mean "very slight" though, it's not noticeably loose. Additionally the instrument is guaranteed for a year for corks, pads and springs etc, so I'd imagine this is something I could bring up with them.
Also something that interested me - the hole under the register key, rather than being the normal type hole, was a kind of octagonal shaped metal arrangement with a hole in the middle of the metal (sorry, a bit hard to describe, as I've never seen this before). Is this how they were made, or is this something that would have been done at a later date, do you think?
I've decided to sleep on it, and wait until tomorrow then go and have another look armed with the information I've managed to find out here. Tomorrow is payday, and if it's still in the shop then, then it's meant to be
Cheers,
Lisa
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Author: Mark P
Date: 2003-05-15 19:03
The register tone hole is absolutely stock Selmer, my 9* has the same thing.
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-05-15 19:49
My Selmer Series 9 (of the *-less variety) also has the metal plate behind the register key. I'm still trying to figure out its purpose . . . 
Anyway, the horn you've described sounds like quite a good deal! Since you mention there is a warranty on it, I bet they can recork the wiggly tenon for you.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-05-15 20:43
We have discussed our "pinch Bb" many, many times. I believe this is Selmer's solution [and is quite similar to LeBlanc's] to the keying-compromises where one tone hole serves for both the Bb and register accessing . As far as I have investigated this ?problem?, the "raised reg. tube, with less internal projection " is at least as good as the other solutions, namely those by Stubbins and Mazzeo etc. Galper's patent on dimensions [have pat#] quantifies , and kits are available, I believe. I suggest trying your cl in this region, to see if your "structure" is good. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Lisa_UK
Date: 2003-05-15 22:52
Hey Benni,
>Since you mention there is a warranty on it, I bet they can recork the wiggly tenon for you.
OK, so here's the deal - the shop that's selling it has had it serviced, and the warranty isn't with the shop, it's with the repairer. Which makes more sense to me. But as the shop have it for sale as a "Selmer Bundy" -probably hence the price - they obviously have no clue as to what this clarinet is. So...with this in mind - I'm going to mention the tenon issue to them tomorrow and see if I can negotiate on the price a little bit.
Sneaky, I know, but worth a shot!
Lisa
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2003-05-16 13:44
Lisa--at $300, I would grab this CT in a minute!! I have had mine for years and it plays quite well- I have also bought and sold CT's for over $750.00, so $300 is very cheap for an excellent instrument! Just say to yourself: "Good enough for Benny Goodman is good enough for me".
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-05-16 15:18
Lisa -
The wobble in the center joint may be because the tenon isn't quite as long as the socket. Steve Hartman posted a great solution: have a repair shop glue a thin ring of cork to the bottom of the tenon, so that the open area is filled in. That takes care of the gap in the bore (which improves response) and the stability problem.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: graham
Date: 2003-05-16 15:27
The price is low. How satisfied are you that the goods aren't hot?
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Author: ken
Date: 2003-05-16 17:13
saxlite wrote: Just say to yourself: "Good enough for Benny Goodman is good enough for me".
--Benny Goodman's Selmer CT would be good enough for me, but the horn in question clearly IS NOT. $300 is not only a bargain basement price but less than half of what they generally sell for AS IS and not even refurbished. It could very well be a great buy and player but then again...
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-05-16 17:25
Hi Lisa,
As far as the repairer not knowing the difference between a Bundy and CT, well...... Not to play the moral/ethical card on you, but as long as you can live with it, fine by me.
I have purchased several items in my life where the seller did not know what they had (and I'm sure that I have been hammered a few times when I bought some of those Rolex watches in Tiajuana).
Anyhow, the price is terrific. Grab it and enjoy.
HRL - Player of Selmer 9, 9* (both have the funny register vent "nut") and LeBlanc Dyn 2
Post Edited (2003-05-17 12:45)
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-05-17 12:05
Lisa,
"Pigs get fat, Hogs get slaughtered."
If the serial number is intact (thieves will obscure the numbers), plonk down the dosh and go!
There's cheap, and there's flinty.
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Author: Lisa_UK
Date: 2003-05-18 18:08
Hey everyone,
Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately my car broke down this weekend and I now have to spend my money on that, so I won't be buying any clarinets of any description for the forseeable future. Bummer!
Oh, and on the ethics issue. If this was someone selling their own instrument who genuinely didn't know what it was, of course I wouldn't hesitate to give them the asking price for it. However, this place is our local pawn shop - and not a very scrupulous one at that. The kind that'll give you 20 quid for something valuable when you're desperate for money and sell it on for 200 - I know, because they've done it to me in the past! So yeah, I could have lived with it ;-)
Anyway, the point is rather moot now, but thanks everyone for your input.
Lisa
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Author: Lisa_UK
Date: 2003-05-30 14:52
Hello everyone,
I had a dream last night, that I had actually bought the Centered Tone after all. I was standing in the shop belting out "In The Mood" on it! I thought this was wierd, so on the offchance, I went back to the shop today, and it was still there! I was even more suprised when he said if I wanted it, he'd do it for £150 cash. I couldnt resist - so I am now the proud owner. It's beautiful and I love it!
I do have a question though. I've noticed, while playing along with some Sibelis Scorch music on the internet this afternoon, that when playing in the lower register, it's a little bit sharp, while in the upper register it's just fine - perfectly in tune. Any ideas what may be causing this?
Bearing in mind that I haven't played seriously for quite a while, I'm inclined to think it might be my embouchure, maybe I'm holding my lips a little bit too tight? I would have thought if that was the case it would be playing sharp in all the registers though? It also still has the original Selmer mouthpiece so I'm wondering if a new one may be in order?
Or is this just one of those "old clarinet" things?
Any advice you can give would be great.
Thanks,
Lisa
Post Edited (2003-05-30 14:57)
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Author: graham
Date: 2003-05-30 16:17
Can't comment directly on the Selmer CT, but my c. 1910 pair exhibit this lower register sharpness trait, particularly in G to C (F and E should still be flat). I think the 12ths are just narrow in that area for straight bore instruments, and they tuned them with the emphasis on the clarinet register.
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Author: Lisa_UK
Date: 2003-05-30 16:35
Yes Graham, actually, that's exactly where it is. The left hand first finger A (sorry, dont know the tecnical term!) is a little sharp also.
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-05-30 18:03
Yet seven months to round out this year, Lisa, and so far I believe you've gotten the number one Best Deal. I'm bettin' on you to finish first in class -- "All Around Good Deal" -- in the 2003 running
Hope the trouble with your car is not too terribly serious.
Best wishes and Happy Tootin' to ya!
- ron b -
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Author: Wes
Date: 2003-05-30 19:05
Graham, if the low register sharpness is in the right hand G to C area, this can sometimes be fixed with a Moennig type barrel which has a "reverse taper". A while back, I fixed a clarinet with that right hand low register sharpness by a very slight reaming of the barrel, making the inner diameter of the top end of the barrel larger, same as the measurements of a Moennig barrel. Good luck!
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Author: Lisa_UK
Date: 2003-05-31 16:11
Cheers Ron - yes, I'm very pleased with it! Not often a deal that good comes along.
Wes, thanks for the advice about the barrel. This isn't something i've heard of before - is this a specific make of barrel? I'll certainly give it a try you think it'll help.
Thanks
Lisa
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