 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: cyso_clarinetist
Date: 2003-05-14 05:55
You all must think I am insane for posting this but I figure I would get some conversation going anyhow.
I cannot tell you as of late how much lecturing I get for playing buffets. I hear the same thing over and over again. "You have been brainwashed", "Buffets are only the most used becuase they came here first", "There are so many better brands out there" , "you are just trying to fit in and be like everyone else", "Buffet clarinets are so out of tune" and it goes on and on.
I can't speak for others but as for myself. My primary teaching came from being in a Studio were Leblanc clarinets are the choice. I played on the Opus (Bb) and a Concerto (A) for a while and then later as I developed as a player I found that the qualities of a buffet clarinet fit me better and I plan on staying with these horns for the rest of my life.
Don't get me wrong I know that there are some horrendous intonation problems on R13's. I use fingering that barely resemble that of the Boheme system that I never had to use on my leblancs. I myself feel that the tone and response are worth putting up with the intonation issues. After all if you have a sensitive ear you should be able to fix these issues through yourself.
So just to prove some points. How many of you are Buffet Clarinet players out there? And also why do you think some people that play other brands are so set on buffet's being "poor quality" instruments.
Look forward to the trouble about to come
- James
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-05-14 06:06
Why are you expecting trouble, CC ? The Buffets I've known have all been pretty well behaved instruments. I've never been aware of any horrendous intonation problems with them. It might be helpful if you could you elaborate.
I'm not a Buffet owner at present (maybe someday) but the ones I've played seem to me to be pretty nice instruments, no matter what anyone else's "opinion" might be.... consider the source(s). The proof is in the playing.
- rn b -
Post Edited (2003-05-14 07:09)
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2003-05-14 06:10
I don't know what side to take. I play on an R13 at the moment but am probably upgrading to a pair of LeBlanc Concertos sometime this year.
Both great horns. As for intonation... I have a little more trouble than everyone else. I can hear how far off a note is, but in which direction is the challenge! LeBlanc seem to have tuning that needs less correcting, but that means it has less flexibility. That's something I wish to sacrifice.
I still say Buffet is good though, but so is LeBlanc. And Selmer? Umm...
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2003-05-14 07:13
I'm playing on my delightful R13. Having moved up from a Yamaha student model (which served me quite well, nonetheless), I'm perfectly happy.
I have been having a sharp spell lately, though. It's probably partially me, and partially the fact that my ensemble tunes to A438. I'm pulling out about 1/8 to 3/16 inch at the barrel, and 1/16 to 1/8 at the center. Maybe I'll get a different barrel over the summer (I just have the one that came with the clarinet).
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: graham
Date: 2003-05-14 07:55
The first question is whether the Buffet bashing is an isolated case for you, or whether it goes on more widely. In my area (London), there is no sign of Buffet bashing. There is no Selmer or Leblanc bashing (it is rare to come across anyone using Yamahas). You can understand professional set ups wanting a common model of clarinet to help reduce likely tuning and tonal incompatabilities, but even then I have seen professional orchestras where this is not sacrosanct. In the amateur field it seems more or less an irrelevance. So in my experience the proposition you put forward is merely hypothetical.
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Author: BARRY
Date: 2003-05-14 08:49
Living in France, owning a Buffet is almost mandatory. HOWEVER, I use a Leblanc Ambiance and play in trios and quartets with Buffet players. What I notice is that I am never (well almost never) our of tune, while the Buffet players are constantly adjusting (pulling out).
All the same, I prefer the Buffet sound to mine and use a Buffet A clarinet. I also prefer the positioning of the little finger keys on the Buffet.
barry
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-05-14 11:44
Must be a slow news day.
Seriously, who cares about this?
Ya pays yer money, and ya takes yer chances.
This is like arguing over which former champion baseball teams from different eras could be tops - time better spent haning around the Quiki Mart debating the merits of Slim Jim vs. Circle Jerky...
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-05-14 11:50
I dislike bashing anything .....in general and especially just to start a conversation. If you like Buffets play them. If you don't, then just play something else.
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Author: msloss
Date: 2003-05-14 12:21
Slim Jims! They are more consistent. I find I have to adjust the other brand more frequently with my pocket knife.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-05-14 13:22
James...This topic has been covered so frequently, and appears here about every 3 months.
Most recently:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=105134&t=104548
All professional clarinets will get you where you want to go, some more easily than others.
When all is said and done, lots of verbiage for something that is a personal choice based on sound, intonation, and response ...GBK (owner of 11 R-13's)
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Author: Ralph G
Date: 2003-05-14 13:33
Slim Jims. And the '61 Yankees against the '75 Reds would be a heck of a matchup. But the '91 World Series was the best ever.
________________
Artistic talent is a gift from God and whoever discovers it in himself has a certain obligation: to know that he cannot waste this talent, but must develop it.
- Pope John Paul II
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-05-14 13:45
Buffet clarinets are universally admired. Decisions about what brand one plays are personal matters, not all clarinetists play the same equipment. My section mate plays on model clarinets different from mine and tunes perfectly well with me.
David Dow
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Author: beejay
Date: 2003-05-14 15:05
What intonation problems? My A and Bflat Buffet RCs are perfectly in tune.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-05-14 18:13
A good clarinet player can tune suprisingly well on just about anything. Buffet clarinets have long been famous for the excellent qualities they possess in regard to tuning and sound....
Selmers are pretty nice too.....
As to market share. ....thats best left to economists....
David Dow
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-05-14 18:28
Gee, should I play my Pruefer, or my Kohlert? What do y'all think? I don't want to offend anyone by playing a politically incorrect brand of clarinet....
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Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2003-05-14 20:11
I hate to bash any one maker, because they all have their faults. The clarinet is an instrument of many, many acoustical compromises. Good intonation comes from the subtle combination of the instrument, mouthpiece, reed, and mostly the player. The same instrument can be in-tune for one person, and out-of-tune for another. Trade instruments, and the results are not predictable. Why is this?
The field of clarinet makers is expanding. 15 years ago at ICA it was Buffet, Leblanc, Selmer, and Yamaha. 5 years ago add Rossi, Wurlitzers (Herbert and Frank), Howarth, Stephen Fox, and others. And add many new models from the big 4. IMHO this is a pretty exciting time to be playing clarinet.
In the past, each maker had its own loyal following, that pooh-pooh'ed everyone else, sort of like saying "It's not a Harley, so it's not a motorcycle." Is this still true? It sure would be better if there were more objective comparisons of instruments, from the point of acoustical engineering, durability, the listener, how they feel to play on, how well they are setup by the maker, etc.
Exactly how does each maker control its manufacturing process? Who uses patterns, and how uses digital or computerized measuring systems? Which factories are climate-controlled? What are the acoustical differences between various designs? Whose keywork holds up and whose doesn't? Which makers want you to know these things and which don't?
|-(8^)
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-05-14 20:45
I'm one of those people that always questions the reasons why so-and-so bought a Buffet, because a lot of the time, their only reason is "because my teacher told me they were the best" or "because the rest of my section plays them" or something like that. There are very few people I've come across that say "I've play-tested lots of different clarinets and found the Buffet to be the best," and even then, I'm skeptical of that, especially if they're always talking about how "Buffets are the only serious horns" (excuse me, I'm sure people who say that would never call it merely a "horn," and would make sure to call it a "clarinet").
Anyway, I don't think Buffets are "poor quality" instruments, I just don't think that they're superior to all other pro models, either.
----------
Morrigan: What was that about Selmers . . . ?? *raises eyebrow*
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Author: John Noecker
Date: 2003-05-14 21:09
I recently bought a Leblanc Opus... I love it... I was originally planning on buying an R-13, myself, based on reputation... I got both from Woodwind Brasswind on trial, and boy am I glad I did... The Leblanc was superior to the Buffet in every respect. Offhand, I cannot think of anything I liked about the Buffet better. My teacher agrees. A friend who also tried both clarinets out for me liked the R-13 better... My teacher liked the Opus better for herself, personally, but then liked her Selmer 10G better than the Opus.. Personally, I liked the 10G least of all. After this, I realized that clarinets really do have to suit the person playing them. I personally would never criticize a person who played on any particular clarinet... In the Youth Symphony I play in, we have 4 soprano clarinetists, two 1sts and two 2nds. The first seat player plays on a Yamaha, I play on Leblanc. The second clarinets are Buffet and Selmer, respectively. We have no tuning problems or blending problems that we can blame on the differences in manufacturing. And we're not even very good, so we're not the ones ensuring things are right. Try things out, and play on what works best for you. If you buy one of those "THE ORIENT COMPANY" clarinets from ebay, and like it better than the R-13... I won't criticize that (provided you can actually play the blasted thing). I find it odd that people criticize you for playing an R-13.. Around here, I've never heard clarinetists ridicule each other about their instrument brands... Maybe just because I'm only in high school, I don't know...
John
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-05-15 15:24
Some never stop bashing Buffet.
'T comes up here most every day.
Its keywork or poor intonation...
Yet others show pure adulation.
HOW MANY you play, GBK?
Henry
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-05-15 15:56
You don't need an intelligence test,
To see that Buffet's are the best.
Eleven I own.
All bought without loan.
Crazy? No, merely obsessed...GBK
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-05-15 18:45
If I were rich like GBK,
I'd own not a single Buffet!
I'd spend all my cash
on a clarinet stash
of nice rosewood Rossis, ole'!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-05-15 20:31
So Rossi's are favored by Dave,
After all, they are the new wave.
Handcrafted in Chile,
Not in Paris or Philly.
Switch brands? I'm just not that brave...GBK
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-05-15 20:33
Some posters do seem a bit dotty
with other comments rather spotty;
even old GBK,
who does favor Buffet,
has performed playing on his Amati.
Clarinets are like cigars and wine:
your desires may be different from mine.
If you like what you play,
everyone ought to say
that your Clarinet is just fine.
The "Boheme system" writes James (in his way)
with fingering comments to say;
but his words fail to mention
that it was an invention
of Puccini, for operatic play.
Do leave your colleagues alone.
They have to play all on their own.
And if you just don't like it,
perhaps you should strike it
right out of your silly head bone.
Regards,
Joh
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-05-15 20:59
To Dave and to Glenn I say: "Wait!
You're getting me into some state!"
Buffets are certainly operable,
while Rossis are equally tolerable.
But only Leblancs I call great!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-05-15 21:00
Dave pines for Rossi, and John plays his Vito,
Each thinks they sound "muy bonito."
I'd journey on to France,
Try clarinets at first chance.
Go to Chile? Yes...for beans and burrito...GBK
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-05-15 21:09
My old moldy Pruefer, it's fine
Although ancient, almost Grecian, in design
You may think me off my rocka
When playing quickly, ala Polacca
If my maraccas keep mo' betta time
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-05-15 21:28
With all these clever wordsmiths,
We see that "best brand" is a myth.
I think we should quit,
Before Mark has a fit.
And says we've used too much bandwidth...GBK
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-05-15 21:33
Vunderbahr, J C McA and GBK, , its kinda like the girls, all different but GREAT. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2003-05-15 23:01
Say, "Buffet", and the bashing commences,
But we never get any consensus.
Many brands fit our needs,
It is just those damn reeds!
It's THAT search that shows us what tense is.
When a thread on Buffet, pro and con
Turns to poetry now and anon,
We find many rhyme nicely,
(Not lim'ricks, precisely.)
And the meanness of bashing is gone.
You know, it's really not fair, man.
Of this talent I'm missing my share, man.
GBK, he can rhyme,
Any day, any time.
Can't do it, so back to Herr Baermann.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-05-15 23:47
And still no mention of Howarth & Peter Eaton, which are current pro favourites alongside Bufffet & Selmer here. Yamaha absent perhaps largely because of an importer's policy re pro instruments. Not so many Le Blancs.
At least variety is the spice of life for the repair technician here.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-05-16 13:01
"The "Boheme system" ... was an invention
of Puccini, for operatic play."
I realize the above is simply poetic license(sp?) but have been under the impression that the French invented the popular misconception.....
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-05-17 00:00
Sorry, I don't know, Synonymous Botch. People here in NZ buy them direct from the manufacturer. I think they possibly even get them on trial.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2003-05-17 00:12
Gordon - You can get Eaton clarinets on trial?? How??!!! Send a few to Melbourne for me, before I buy LeBlancs!
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-05-17 01:43
A late response, but I play on a buffet. But for me personally, I don't care much about the namebrand, just the sound quality and playability of the instrument. I only play buffet because it was given to me for free by my uncle.
What I'm wondering is how a person gets stuck on buffet to begin with. My instructor plays a set of Buffet R-13 Prestige's. When I talked to him about possibly getting another clarinet, he told me, "Great. I'll keep a look out for a good R-13 for you!" When I told him I might've been interested in the Leblanc Concerto, he said, "Yeah. Their not bad at all. They're very close to a buffet." And when I mentioned a Selmer 10G he said, "Their probably the closest you can get to a buffet without it actually being a buffet!". He's stuck on it. Which is odd considered his primary teacher was Anthony Gigliotti, who helped develop the 10G! I figured he'd be a selmer man. Oh well.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Brenda
Date: 2003-05-17 02:52
GBK - Hey, beans and burrito are Mexican, not Chilean. (My husband's from Chile and I have to cook for him.) It rhymes really well though. I'm just so impressed with you guys!!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-05-17 04:02
Brenda...You're right...
Instead of "beans and burrito" I should have used "congrio and salmon frito"
I'll have my publisher make the change for my upcoming book on clarinet poetry ...GBK
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-05-17 13:15
Morrigan, I said I was not sure about this. I do not deal in instruments myself. I'll try to remember to ask next time a customer comes in with one for servicing.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-05-18 02:40
GBK:
The Burrito began in Tijuana;
not Chile, you silly old bwana.
And now that you know
it's from Old Mexico,
why not go there and have one mañana?
Regards,
John
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-05-18 02:53
John et al:
So I errored on my use of "burrito".
Your sting bites me like a mosquito.
I'll apply your lesson,
At the delicatessen.
And order "congrio con salmon frito"...GBK
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2003-05-18 11:44
No, the act of Buffet Bashing requires one Buffet to smash another. This way they cancel each other out and won't make a mess on your practise room floor.
Just thought you might want to know.
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