 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-05-06 03:33
The Cundy Bettoney company began offering professional quality metal clarinets in
the late 1920's, ultimately with the name 'Silva Bet'. Within five years, most of the
leading clarinet makers were offering high end metal clarinets. Some said that their
metal clarinets were better than their wooden models. However, within a decade,
most had returned to featuring the wooden models and produced only student metal
clarinets. Very few metal clarinets were made after 1950. Based on serial numbers,
I think that Bettoney produced more than 5000 professional grade metal clarinets.
One or two show up on eBay each month.
There have been many advances in clarinet design in the last 70 years and I am
unqualified to say much about them. Three that I have read about on Klarinet are
undercutting tone holes, the use of poly-cylindrical bores and milling reverse tapers
in barrels. Undercutting tone holes in a metal clarinet probably means making
specialized cutters. I don't think you can reshape the bore. However, it should be
possible to make replacement barrels following newer designs..
Many on the list are familiar with Walter Grabner and ClarinetXpress. Walter
agreed to make a new barrel for one of my Silva Bets. ($99 plus shipping.) It
arrived tonight. I believe that it is modeled after his 'fat body' barrel. It is made from
coco bola and has some sort of insert in the bottom tenon to reduce the socket so
that it fits on the narrow neck of the Silva Bet.
Both Walter and I think that it improves the tone and possibly that the clarinet plays
in tune a little better. The latter is very hard for me to judge. I spent a while with an
electronic tuner. Those things drive me crazy. I was using a J&D Hite hard rubber
mouthpiece, velcro ligature and a Van Dorn 2 1/2 reed. Slides are easy. When I
am not sliding, I generally use a bit of tremolo. I am pretty convinced that I got more
approval beeps when I used the wooden barrel.
I tried the barrel on two other Silva Bets. One is a 7 ring model and I thought the
results were equally good. The other is in the key of A. I think that the bore is
larger on the A and that the barrel a bit longer. The barrel designed for the Bb did
not perform as well on the A, but was usable.
I also tried using my Clark Fobes mouthpiece with the barrel. I'm not sure that I
have an opinion, yet. This is not extensive testing.
Would I consider buying another barrel based on measurements of the first? This
could be a little risky, since it appears that there was some variation in the length of
the Silva Bet barrels over time -- and maybe bore size. I'll have to do some
checking. Also, Walter likes to have the clarinet, mouthpiece & setup so that he can
fine tune his barrel. Still, I might buy one on spec. It would save shipping costs for
the instrument..
It is funny looking? I'll have to post a pic. However, anything that takes people's
eyes off of me improves their view.
Have we caught up to today's professional clarinets? My opinion cannot be trusted
-- I was already planning to get rid of my R13. Walter didn't beg me to let him keep
the Silva Bet, so I guess the answer is no.
Am I recommending that other Silva Bet owners buy a wooden barrel? Well yes, in
the interest of science. More opinions would be good. Clarinets without barrels
show up on eBay all the time and some barrels are damaged. I find it comforting to
know that these Silva Bets can be rescued. I am now planning to mail Walter a
Silver King.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2003-05-06 08:21
Somewhere in storage, I have a Silva Bet clarinet that has the axles all frozen tight. Would it make sense to sell it on ebay in the event that someone would buy it for use of the barrel alone? I believe that it has a few extra keys on it, such as articulated C#/G#.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-05-06 14:29
Jim -
Thanks to you and Walter for the wonderful experiment. This will be a boon for people who find a Silva Bet or other good quality silver horn with the barrel joint missing. The savings from getting an incomplete instrument should pay for Walter's barrel.
I had thought of doing the same thing with my H. Bettony silver Eb and a wood Eb barrel. This will be my inspiration to put on my experimenter's hat.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2003-05-06 16:25
Wes,
The keys on your Silva-Bet can be freed up, and can be restored to playing condition. (It will just take a little longer.) I might buy it but not for the barrel.
Regards
Mark
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-05-06 17:14
There were other good metal clarinets too, I'm sure......I regularly play a German-made metal Moennig Brothers "Professional Marveltone" (or something like that) in a jazz big band, and I believe the sound and intonation of this particular instrument are good enough to use in a symphony orchestra (with a much better player than myself behind the wheel, needless to say...).
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-05-07 14:12
Wes, by all means try to restore your S-B, they dont make them like that any more!! It may take some time with rust solvents and occasional trys at loosening screws and rods, we recovered an old, good wood oboe that way! Jim, I traded off my 3 Star, for a Cr-plated "Victory" with a tarnished barrel, dont recall even trying to play it! I may attempt a wood barrel approach to playability if I have little else [of greater value] to do for a bit, Retirement is GREAT! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2003-05-08 00:53
Hi all,
One problem I have experienced with Silva-Bet adjustable barrels is that mouthpieces just drop in and need a round of tape to fit snug. I have solved this problem by replacing the mouthpiece cork with 1/16-in. thick cork and bevel the edges. This way the mouthpiece is a little tighter on the R13 but snug on the Silva-Bet. I just got sick of taping a cork-greased mouthpiece. Oh, by the way Pyne mouthpieces use this size cork. How I found out was I noticed the Pyne mouthpiece was the only one that didn't need tape on the Bettoney. Vandoren probably uses 3/64 in on theirs.
Best Regards
Mark
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-05-08 01:37
I have noticed that about the Silva Bet barrels. Don't have this problem with the Grabner barrel.
I took the new barrel to a blues jam last night and had no trouble. Oddly, nobody noticed. Maybe not so odd. Most of the audiance is drinking or waiting a turn to play or both. Not too much serious listening. Probably just as well. The room was so loud that serious listeners probably would get hearing damage. When I was up, the drummer was wearing ear plugs. (I bet the club could make money if they sold ear plugs in a vending machine by the bathroom).
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2003-05-11 21:57
Hi,
I have a Bettoney pro model. It is serial# S30 that I bought off ebay. It has the adjustable barrel and I believe it is a Silva-Bet before they started using that name. It looks mint, polished up it looks new. I'll have to wait for the pads to show up before I can hear how it sounds. I do have a question for anyone that knows about Silva-Bets. It seems that this model has a resonator on the G# pinky key. It's a flat washer with a flat screw and post in the middle of the pad. (This is going to be a real joy to install.) This is the only key it is used on. Anyone know anything about it? What good would it do in this spot? The workmanship suggests that they went through a good deal of effort to put it there. Also the flair on the bell is not almost flat on the bottom like most metal clarinets, it looks like a brass instrument flair, a nice smooth curve right to the edge.
Best Regards
Mark
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-05-12 17:33
My H. Bettony silver Eb has the resonators on the bottom four pads -- a miniature version of sax pads or those used on the Leblanc contras. You might take your instrument to a flute technician, who will be used to seating pads like this, using semi-circular paper shims.
Another possibility was suggested by Clark Fobes (who was a top repairman, but has stopped doing it to concentrate on mouthpieces). He said he removes the screw stub in the pad cup and floats ordinary pads in on shellac. I doubt that the presence or absence of a resonator on a single key would make much difference, and since my instrument has four resonators, it's probably that the other three have already been removed on yours.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-05-12 23:41
Mark. Sounds like a serious defect. Out of the goodness of my heart, I would be willing to take that thing off your hands for what you paid.
Seriously, a couple of makers used screws & washers to hold on the four bottom pads. White with the Silver Kings and Buescher come to mind. It is not hard to accidentally knock a post out -- I did that on one pad cup. I have a several silva bets and most don't have the posts. I don't know if some didn't to start with.
I have one of these leather working hole punches (eBay for cheap) with six possible size holes. I center it on a leather pad and punch the smallest size hole that will fit. Maybe the second smallest if I am having trouble getting it dead center. Rather than flute pad shims, I cut shims out of aluminum tape. The advantages are 1) they stay where you put them, and 2) if you want to shallac or glue the pad, heat goes right through the tape. The only trick is to note the orientation of the pad each time you take it off. The leather ones sometimes are thicker on one side. Sometimes this means that rather than shimming, you simply rotate the pad. The secret, however, is leather pads. Synthetic pads might work, too.
Probably it would be good to start a new thread on resonator pads on clarinets. I don't have a clue whether the change the sound. Also, it would be interesting to know if they were used on wooden clarinets of the same period. Or any other period.
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