 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-05-11 21:40
Living in rural Iowa I am hard-pressed to know or find a Bass Clarinet specialist. I own a Conn(Malerne) re-done by Dave S... It plays (played)beatifully until last week. Now throat tones and lower right-hand pinky tones are "stuffy" and feel like more pressure is needed to close everything off. Wearing hearing aids everything always sounds like magnified leaks and with them out I am at a dead loss. I am sure it is nothing major but lack the knowledge to corect this fault myself.
The local area "fix every" specialist is a personal friend and I hate to spoil that relationship by asking him to tweak it if it is something he is not really accustomed to handling. This Board's general comments on "school-maintained" Bass's adds to my apprehension.
Sooo? Is there a good reference book I can obtain which will not only increase my own education (now totally lacking) but stimulate conversation with my friend and possibly improve his memory about things he might do?
Non-Bass references only if applicable please.
Bob A
Bob A
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2003-05-11 22:18
Bob I feel you're about to become a Jack-of-all-Trades?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-05-11 23:36
At my age diz, no time! Maybe just a Jack- - -?
Bob A
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ron b
Date: 2003-05-11 23:46
How do you know whether your friendly Fix-'em-all guy can handle it? Have you asked him? Laying your cards on the table is probably the easiest and quickest way I know of to relieve apprehensions. And, if he's a nice guy, he might show you how to adjust it yourself - relieving the rest of your stress... ![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-05-12 00:04
The low key mechanism on bass clarinets is really 'Mickey Mouse' on Buffet/Yamaha/Selmer. No maker haas successfully addressed the problem of allowing for the twisting of those long key rods.
For several of the low notes, if the mechanism is adjusted such that one of the lowest notes can be played with a single little finger, then the adjustment for other low note fingerings will be compromised.
So adjustment is an inter-related set of rather precarious compromises, and I would suggest one of the most difficult areas of adjustment of any woodwind. Hardly a place for the do-it-yourselfer to start.
The first requirement is play is eliminated from all pivots that are involved, and also for any post supports to allow as little lateral movement of the long rods as possible. Then each pad must seal equally all around the tone hole. Use a feeler shim to test. A feeler can be made with a strip of cellophane - say from outside a cigarette packet), about 0.02 mm thick, or a strip (about 3 mm wide) of membrane from a pad. With a feeler you are testing the difference in 'drag' at many locations around the pad when the key is VERY gently closed, using the tough piece to close the pad, not the key cup itself - VERY IMPORTANT! Finally there is the issue of the compromises in the linkages enabling pads to close together. These adjustments are done using a combination of adjusting screws, modifying the thickness of silencing materials in the linkage, and by slightly bending metal in appropriate places.
Armed with these processes, and using a great deal of analytical mechanical nous, and a great deal of initiative in how to deal with each problem encountered, you may do better than many (most) technicians. If you cannot rustle up those qualities in yourself, to a far greater degree than most people have, then I suggest you leave well alone! These aptitudes do not come from a book, and a set of instructions that attempts to be a substitute for these aptitudes would be dozens of pages long, and would probably be extremely difficult to follow for somebody without the required aptitudes.
Good luck!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-05-12 14:39
Bob, My "best" friendly repairmen acquaintances, are, like Gordon NZ, truly mechanical engineers in their ability to ferret-out problems in the more-complicated PLATEAU keywork the bass cl presents, and horn-playing sleuths for finding/solving problems with the sounds. With such requirements, only a very few of our population can qualify. I believe had I taken training from experts, I might have joined that elite group, a bit late now!! While I have had years of watching the pros work and learned SOME things from my self-taught experiences, I keep reminding myself of my limitations in analysis-repair-tuning, and seek pro help, 45 miles away, on both my own horns and those from others seeking my advice. Re: book-repair manual helps, most of our " good books" [Rendall, p.e.] have at least some keying description, Willaman has several [older] chapters on repairs, and both Selmer and Leblanc have put out simple-repair manuals, pads and corks mainly, little on adjustments for register keying and and the long L F keys, the major problems!! I'm sure wordy!, luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-05-12 14:57
Don't fret Y'all. I know my limitations (and lack of mechinical aptitude). I was just looking for a basic "this-does-that" type explanation of what happens when you press something. Thanks for your concerns and I will talk with my friendly fix-it guy.
Gee, I hope I haven't started people worrying about their own Bass's health. Noticed Ken's posting re NYC below.
Bob A
Post Edited (2003-05-12 16:06)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ebasta
Date: 2003-05-12 17:32
I like your explanations. does anyone want to fix my horn?
or, what about a rpmn in the phila area.
ed
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-05-12 19:23
Bob,
In the name of advancement of knowledge (yours), I hereby offer you a "get out of jail free" card --- try the repairs yourself, and if you muck them up too badly, I'll be happy to fix everything you've done (including the original problem!) for just the cost of return shipping. Take this as a vote of confidence in your abilities --- I'm fairly certain you can do this work yourself. By the way, we all seem to have failed to mention something important --- buy (or make) yourself a leak light --- probably the most critical tool for fixing leaks --- gotta find the leaks first, then fix 'em, then confirm that they're fixed!
DS
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-05-12 20:38
Thanks Dave. Gee, I always thought a "leak light" was the one you left on in the potty for us old men's nightly wanderings.
Bob A
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-05-13 12:13
A leak light is pretty useless when tone holes are small, long, and dark, as on Bb clarinet, and when pads are translucent, as with conventional bladder pads.
A leak light could be useful for a bass clarinet with leather pads, for the low notes.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-05-13 15:02
Gordon, that's what we've got--a looong one piece Conn(Malerne) Bass, beautifully rstored, owned and played (badly but fondly) by an old geezer.
Bob A
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-05-13 15:02
Gordon,
You are correct! Since I repad all sizes of clarinets (including sopranos) with tan leather pads, I don't have the problem of trying to find leaks on translucent bladder pads. And fortunately, most of the leak problems on soprano clarinets that can't be found using the classic "suck test", namely the larger toneholes on the bottom joint, are amenable to detection using the leak light (which is not, as surmised by Dr. Arney, a visual aid for late-night incontinence expeditions......).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-05-13 23:50
It sounds as if David could be offering to do a re-re-pad job! Unless the quality of the pad installation and adjustment is up to the quality of the rest of the restoration. Some restorations are rather limited to visual effect.
Bob, after an offer like that from David you cannot go wrong. Do anything you like - experiment - and David will put it right. David the man! :-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob A
Date: 2003-05-13 23:59
Gordon, Dave made the offer knowing full well that I would not take undue advantage or do anything to disturb the delicate balance in his household, between his restoration business, the horses, donkey, small children , and lovely Lady wife. Sooo-I shall do what I can do here locally, and if it is beyond the fixing at this end--then , and only then- send it to the Master.
Bob A
Post Edited (2003-05-14 01:00)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-05-14 18:44
Oh, stop it, you guys, I'm blushing! To clarify the situation a bit for Gordon (NZ), I'm the amateur techni-hack who did the original restoration/repad for Monsieur Arney a couple of years ago (has it been that long??), so if the pads are now leaking I consider it my responsibility to put it right -- thus my offer is not quite as altruistic as it might seem on the surface. And Bob, I really meant it: If it doesn't work right after you try to fix it yourself, please do not hesitate for a moment --- send it to me and I'll get it squared away. Not to worry, the situation chez moi is fairly stable; all the critters have been fed, the Lovely Wife has just received a couple of nice bottles of wine and a nice dinner for Mothers' Day, and the kids are enjoying the fine spring weather. Another bass clarinet in the house, more or less, shouldn't send the place into a tailspin........
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-05-14 22:07
Thanks for clarifying. Now I understand. I do that sort of thing myself. Did it just yesterday for a Chinese sax that should have been trashed ex-factory. But the owner is so sweet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: diz
Date: 2003-05-14 22:09
Dave Spiegelthal - your eloquence makes me smile.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
