 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: wjk
Date: 2003-05-04 13:56
In the book, the Compleat Conductor, the author seems to "put down" Norrigton (particularly) his Beethoven as being not true to the spirit of the original. The author seems to feel Carlos Kleiber's Beethoven is far truer. My understanding is that Norrigton's orchestra's use "period instruments." What do others feel about the above?
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-05-04 14:04
Any books with contrasting opinions? This is a pretty esoteric subject, considering that we'll have to know what "true to Beethoven" means, what "authentic" means, and knowledge of both Norrington and Kleiber's research and depth of knowledge of Beethoven.
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2003-05-04 18:04
Obviously Norrington's approach is closer to what Beethoven would have imagined. Besides his orchestra using period instruments, his detailed research into tempo, sonority, rhythm, articulation, balance, orchestral seating, pitch, intonation, and just about every other aspect of performing practice, would guarantee this.
Does the author of 'The Compleat Conductor" give reasons for why he finds Kleiber's approach truer to the "spirit of the original"?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-05-04 19:30
I have Norrington's complete Beethoven cycle and very much enjoy it. He is one of the few conductors (IMO) who truly pays attention to letting the inner voices be heard. Much of what makes Beethoven such an interesting composer is to listen to the workings of the inner and moving harmonic lines. (Beethoven struggled and rewrote passages numerous times to achieve this) Norrington lets these lines be heard with clarity.
As a period set it is quite nice, although I now prefer the higher drama in John Eliot Gardiner's set...GBK
Post Edited (2003-05-04 20:32)
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-05-05 00:27
I agree with GBK - I also like Hogwood's very unemotion renderings of the Beethoven Cycle. Having said that - all of these so called period performances are a little to "nice" for my liking. Considering that musicians in Beethoven's day were peasant class. Even Haydn was considered at the same level as servant - read HC Robins Landon's wonderful books on life at Esterhazy for insight into how musicians were treated.
I much prefer to the very rude and noisy renderings of Il Gardino Armonico - they reek of sweat, body odour and no-nonsense (but beautifully in tune) playing much more in keeping with my mind's eye of 17th century Italian Musicians.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-05-05 14:51
I prefer Harnoncourt in Beethoven way over Norrington. As to style, I think the Norrington is lifeless and anemic in quality. I heard a recent performance of the Beethoven 7 of his on period instruments and felt it did nothing to bring out the heroic elements in this composer's music.
David Dow
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Author: graham
Date: 2003-05-06 12:32
I back Norrington but feel he is a little uneven. I got hold of his Eroica but it did nothing for me. I used, on the other hand, to feel negative about the 5th until I heard Norrington. And his 2/8 is brilliant, as is most of his 9.
Like Haydn and certain others, Beethoven can satisfy with a very wide variety of approaches, but I feel we have Norrington more than any other conductor to thank for putting this approach to Beethoven on the modern map. If you listen to the way Rattle's Beethoven has changed over the years (and realise he is one of the leading conductors of the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, the successor to the London Classical Players), then you can see what Norrington's influence has been.
Pity Toscannini did not have the same influence in an essentially similar approach to Beethoven.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-05-06 18:46
Interesting how Toscannini and Szell both chose tempi for the slow movements of many of these symphonies that period people emulate. there must be something in the genius of such conductors that the period people love.
for example, having played Beethoven under Eugen Jochum I spoke with him in very broken German about the tempi chosen for Beethoven slow movements. He said that all Beethoven's tempi markings are certainly a good way to start an interpretration. that being said most period people tend to stick to the tempo markings Beethoven indicates!!!
David Dow
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Author: diz
Date: 2003-05-06 22:17
D Dow - Toscannini and Szell probably both followed Beethoven's MMs, who knows?
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Author: wjk
Date: 2003-05-08 00:42
Thank you for all the fascinating responses to this "esoteric" topic.
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