 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2003-05-01 21:52
Here's a breathing question I haven't seen addressed.
Occasionally, one runs across a piece of music that, for a long period, has no rests of any sort. If the notes are not particularly loud, I run across the problem not of when to breathe in, but when and how to breathe out. In other words, I never use up the air in my lungs, the CO2 builds up, and I feel the need to expel what is left in my lungs, but, when I breathe, I just breathe in more air to make up for the small amount that was expelled as I played. What do others do in this situation? Keep going until you finally hit a rest of any type? Take the time to breathe out and in again, possibly dropping a note or two? Learn circular breathing? Something else?
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Author: John Noecker
Date: 2003-05-01 22:05
I've been taking lessons for about a year now, and this was one of the first things my teacher had me work on... When I first started playing some longer solo pieces, I would eventually turn bright red, start puffing my cheeks, leaking air, etc... It was pretty funny... She told me that where I would normally breathe in, if I could, I should try to breathe out first, then in... Sometimes, I also find, it helps if perhaps I alternate breaths... for example.. at one spot where I might have breathed in, I breathe out... and wait until the next oppurtunity to breathe in. I don't know for sure, but this works for me... I have to expel the "bad air" before I can take in more "good air"
John Noecker
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-05-01 22:09
If it's a solo I suppose you have to learn circular br. If there's others helping carry the load just quick in and out. I occasionally have to vent excessive air and have never given it a second thought.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-05-01 23:14
There will be one or two notes in some incidental run that are omitted, so that air may be admitted.
I have much the same problem as you, in that my rig is sufficiently resistant to exhalation (makes for a controlled range of dynamics) leaving me with a 'tidal volume' that needs to leave before my next breath.
Ya gotsta choose something in the ink to leave out.
The more you play the piece, the greater likelihood you will find pauses in the chart, where you could pencil in a little 'comma' for a breath.
To misquote Stephen Fox, a serious player in Toronto, "You should not need to work so hard for a good sound."
In other words, with a developed embouchure and good air support you must work within the score to breathe BEFORE you drop!
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-05-02 00:09
After playing a piece for a while, you get to know when that spot is coming up that you get to breathe in. You know it's coming. So what I do is I let a little air leak out my embouchre. It doesn't really affect my tone or anything (it's easier to let more air leak when playing forte, but you can do it at a softer volume).
From earlier discussions on the BBoard, it's not noticed by an audience since your sound of the clarinet easily drowns it out, the only person who will note it will be you and ther persons next to you. And when you get to that spot, you will have no extra air in your lungs and can focus on only breathing in.
Lots of pros leak air and, well, their pros so it can't really be that bad of an issue (my clarinet teacher leaks air all the time, and leaks more when he gets to a forte, and he's a professional).
Also, I've learned that if it's a long sustained note, even at a lesser volume, I can adjust how much air flows past the reed without affecting the volume. Try it. The less you pinch your reed with the embouchre, the more air you can use to maintain the dynamic, and you can get used to filling the instrument with more air instead of the usual air/volume ratio.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: hans
Date: 2003-05-02 00:26
Don,
I read a medical journal article a year or so ago which implied that circular breathing (breathing in through the nose while using the cheeks as bellows)could be a life shortener for musicians.
Number 3 below might help to answer your question.
I hope this is useful,
Hans
From "The Woodwinds" (1964) by Everett L. Timm, Director of the School of Music, Louisiana State University:
"There are some basic principles that determine where to breathe:
1. Physical limitations of the player. This will differ among individuals and vary with the required degree of loudness. It is advisable not to make phrases so long that inhalation is labored, if possible.
2. Musical phrasing should be preserved. The natural progression between between certain notes must not be broken by breathing. This is very important!
3. When physical limitations force a performer to breathe, she or he should select the place which seems "the least of the evils". Some of these are:
a) After long notes, even though they are under a slur.
b) Just after the first note after the bar line, so that the first beat is not delayed.
c) Between the notes in a large interval.
d) Between detached notes (even if for a very short breath).
e) When a passage carries a slur which is too long, try breathing in several different places and select the one which seems to permit the most meaningful grouping of notes. (Consider harmonic relationship and the feeling of progression of the melodic line.)
Mark the places where breathing is to be done. Breathing should not be a haphazard thing."
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2003-05-02 07:15
sfalexi wrote: "From earlier discussions on the BBoard, it's not noticed by an audience since your sound of the clarinet easily drowns it out"
From earlier discussions on this BB their was disagreement on this topic. Leaking air out of the side of the mouth is a bad habit, and is bad technique. Some pros do it, but they can't defend it, and know that it is just a bad habit (if they are even aware that they are doing it at all!). It can be heard by the audience, and is also picked up on recordings. It's also heard by your colleagues, who think that it's part of your clarinet sound, and will just assume that you have an 'airy' sound.
Anybody who is teaching their students to leak air has failed to understand a basic principle of embouchure formation.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-05-02 14:25
Don -
Oboists face this problem from the outset. Look at the top of a brass oboe reed staple. It's smaller than a pencil lead. A complicating factor is that the air pressure is much higher on the oboe than the clarinet.
A Google search on "oboe" "stale" and "exhale" reminded me of what oboists do.
First, exhale before you inhale. This gets rid of all the carbon dioxide in your lungs. This doesn't take much time, and you don't have to make a violent lunge. Just keep blowing when you take the instrument out of your mouth. Let out a nice puff and then breath in.
Second, don't take in too much air. A giant breath doesn't let you go very much longer than a moderate one, and it leaves you with more stale air to exhale before your next breath. Don't skip the natural breathing spots, even if you don't have to breath physiologically. The music needs that punctuation. If you do happen take to take too big a breath, just let out a bit before starting to play again.
Third, as Liquorice says, it's not good to leak air through your embouchure as a general thing. However, you can do it for a second or two, for the special purpose of getting rid of stale air, where the space to breathe is too short to exhale before inhaling. You can avoid this by planning ahead. Mark your music at the previous breathing spot to remind yourself to take a smaller breath.
Breathing is one of the big advantages singers and wind players have. Far too many pianists and string players run phrases together, just because they don't have the natural rhythm of breathing. The best pianists and string players coordinate their breathing with the phrasing, or at least make some motion to mark the phrase ends and beginnings.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-05-02 15:19
Well-selected and discussed info, Hans and Ken. I had some 10 yrs of trying to become an oboist, too tough for me! I did learn the requirement of "Out goes the bad air" , by nearly passing out a few times, and observing skilled oboists turning red on extended passages! In our present band's selections, several seem to have been orchestrated by/from string players/music, with impossible slur-durations [cadenzas etc], at least for me and my bass cl. So, I generally gradually lower my tone's volume toward zero, listen for a "melody break", hope that someone else might fill in my breath out-in gap, attack softly and rise back to appropriate volume. Seems to work with minimum musical-injury! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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