 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Dawne
Date: 2003-04-21 19:18
I have a question. I don't know what undertones are. What am I listening for? I only hear other tones when I play against my piano and the piano strings pick up the vibrations...or people or pets are moving around in the room. Sometimes the notes sound so pure that they sound like a flute, which is kind of cool but I am not sure I like it. So, what are undertones?
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-04-21 19:36
This is what I consider "undertones". The clarinet is based in twelfths. So if you play the lowest E (all fingers down) and hit the register key, the note that comes out will be a twelfth above it (B). Undertones can happen on any note, but are more common (from what I hear) at the middle register (also known as the clarion register) notes played with the left hand (from the G right above the staff to the high C to lines above the staff).
When you get an undertone, it means hit the register key, have the correct fingering, however instead of immediately sounding the G above the staff, you end up hearing the C below the staff (a twelfth down, as though you didn't hit the register key). This can be VERY annoying since you didn't want that, you wanted the G. Sometimes the low C will be sustained, sometimes it will be very quick, however is still audible. This is definitely undesirable.
There are a number of factors that can produce this. Anything from the mouthpiece to barrel to reed to ligature to the clarinet I believe can affect this. But you want all the notes to be pure and not to accidentaly get the "undertone".
And FYI, an "overtone" is the exact opposite. That's when you play a note and get a higher "squeek". The squeek actually is an overtone. Most of the time the squeek is a twelfth above what you were trying to play, but you can actually overblow even more and get two overtones above. This is actually an exercise I do to help develop control over my embouchre. I play the lowest A that I can on the clarinet, and with a slight movement of my lip get the E to blow (an overtone), and with more movement of the lip and ambouchre get the high C# to play. After doing this, it seems to be easier when I want to play a higher note because my embouchre automatically adjusts to where that overtone "should" be it often eliminates the chance of getting an undertone.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
Post Edited (2003-04-21 20:40)
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2003-04-21 20:30
That's all correct, except that the undertones produced aren't a 12th below! Try it...
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Author: William
Date: 2003-04-21 22:38
The correct term is "Overtone." Whenever you produce any note, a series of harmonics are produced above the fundamental pitch you are playing in the following sequence: Octave, fifth, second octave, third, fifth, seventh, third octave, second and so on withthe intervals becoming smaller. The names of the harmonics sounding above C, for example, would be: C-C-G-C-E-G-Bb-C-D-E-F# and so on. The cornet will sound that harmonic series without the use of valves.
Those harmonics always sound and you hear them as they lend quality or definition to the tone. They are, for example, what make a saxophone note sound like a sax and not a flute. For each instrument, they sound at different strengths giving that instrument it's own particular sound. That is how electronic instruments often duplicate different sound textures and this principal can be effectively demostrated on any old Hammod organ that has those tone altering pull tabs which regulate the strength of each harmonic overtone.
As the fundamental sound pitch gets higher, so do the overtones sounding above, and that is why in the highest ranges, most instrument start to sound quite similar in tonal texture--your ears can no longer hear the highest sounding harmonics which give the sound it's definition. Triple C on the clarinet, cornet, and tenor sax sound about the same if the sounds attack and release are taken away. An instrument sounding a low note is much more easily recognized because the harmonics resonating above the note are still within our hearing range and the variance of strengths can be aurally appreciated, giving dfinition and recognition to the instrument being played.
BTW, sqweeks are uncontrolled harmonics.
That concludes my rambling lecture on overtones and their effect. Hope this helps clarify things a bit.
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Author: jez
Date: 2003-04-21 23:43
William,
your "rambling lecture" may help clarify things a bit for the sax & flute, but don't forget that the clarinet, because of its cylindrical rather than conical bore, behaves as a stopped tube and only produces every other harmonic, i.e. 1st 3rd 5th 7th etc.
I suspect Dawne was asking about undertones not overtones and I've always understood that to mean the phenomenon that sfalexi describes where a lower note can be heard as well as the one intended. This is very common around the high end of the clarion, the repeated high A's (A5) in Beethoven's 5th providing a good example.
jez
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Author: PJ
Date: 2003-04-22 03:18
Wouldn't an easy way to say it be the 'grunts' one hears when playing in the higher registers? It is obvious that you wouldn't hear undertones as well, or at all, in the chalemeau register. The more common undertones will be heard in the altissimo register. High F#, G and A are good examples. The F# tends to be pretty nasty at times on my horn in certain situations. Tongue placement and reed strength plays an important role here. If the heart of the reed is to week, the altissimo notes won't stand a chance. Also, if your tongue is dropped in the back of the mouth, air can't be pushed forward to the front of the mouth giving it the speed it needs to voice the notes correctly and this is when one will hear undertones. (Feeble, but it makes sense...)
It is my feeling that the perfect balance of overtones, etc., results in that 'ring' in the sound that makes you audible in the back of the performance hall. But, that's a whole other conversation! : )
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Author: Dawne
Date: 2003-04-22 08:36
I was asking this question because some people remark about the undertone problems of certain makes of clarinets...and I thought they were talking about harmonics. And I knew I could hear them in my sax playing, but I can't really hear them all that well on the clarinet. I wondered why one would not want them. Anyway, William's explanation makes much sense to me...especially why when I play the higher notes I sometimes sound like a flute.
I do understand what sfalexi is talking about. There is one Rose study that gave me fits. When I went shopping for a new horn, I took this piece of music with me. I only found one model of Leblanc where the problem was less pronounced, but still there. I decided the major factor was me. I have been working on this with slow but satisfactory success. It is like finding that "sweet spot" when hitting a golf ball with my favorite driver.
Anyway, thanks for the responses.
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