 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: moe
Date: 2003-04-18 20:12
Hello all. I recently acquired an old wooden Buffet clarinet. It has what I believe I've read here is called a "doughnut key" and also a wrap-around register key pad. I bought it hoping it would be an R13 (from researching previous BB entries, I learned that R13 have separate posts at the A/Bb keys. Mine uses the same post It also has a ring key at the left hand ringfinger instead of just an opening). What baffles me is the complete absence of serial numbers. It does have the Buffet Crampon and Cie logo however. If anyone can shed a little light, I would appreciate it. Also at $180 did I pay too much; it does need work. Thanks
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-04-18 20:52
Moe -
The doughnut key dates the instrument to the early part of the 1900s. On those instruments, the serial number was small and lightly stamped. Usually it was on the back at the very bottom of the lower joint and also the upper joint. Occasionally it was at the top of the upper joint.
Dampen an old toothbrush and scrub the grime out of those areas, and the serial number should emerge.
The only Buffets I've seen without serial numbers are at high pitch. Look on the bell, and also above and below the trademark on the upper joint for the initials "H.P." or "L.P." If it's high pitch (A-456), the $180 price is about right, since the instrument can't be played even close to in tune at A-440. If it's low pitch, and it's in repairable condition, you got a bargain.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: moe
Date: 2003-04-18 21:34
Ken, I tried the toothbrush in the areas that you suggested and finally was able to make out (standing by the light of the window) a very faint. Made in France and below it, LP. But still could not find any trace of a number of any kind. Maybe its not an R13, but perhaps it will be a good horn if I get it overhauled. Thanks for your help. Moe
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-04-18 22:03
Hi Moe,
You can check the BB but the R13 did arrive on the scene until the mid 1950s.
HRL
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-04-18 22:07
Moe -
You looked on the front, around the trademark, which is where "Made in France" and "L.P." are stamped. Now look for the serial number on the back of the upper and lower joints, at the very bottom and the very top.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2003-04-18 22:12
Also take it out in BRIGHT sunlight and angle the horn a bit. This helps to read faint stampings.
However, the LP marking means it was made no later than sometime in the 1930s as they ceased to put the LP & HP indications on horns then.
It's quite probably a pro level instrument but cannot be an R-13 since that model wasn't introduced until the 1950s sometime. The exact introduction date is not known.
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Author: moe
Date: 2003-04-18 22:24
Ken and Dee, There are no numbers--not in the front, not in the back, not at the bottom, not at the top, not at the window, not out in strong sunlight, there are no numbers anywhere, (sorry, as you can see I'm a Dr. Seuss fan). But I'm happy to have a Buffet LP at least. And it has no obvious cracks.
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2003-04-19 02:52
Moe,
I have a Buffet HP horn from 1907. The serial number is in only one place; on the lower joint, 2mm above the bell tenon, directly below the thumb rest, on the back. The numbers are lightly stamped and small. Hope this helps. Oh, one other thing, try rubbing the area with a Q-tip with bore oil on it. Sometimes this helps.
Regards
Mark
Post Edited (2003-04-19 03:57)
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Author: Dee
Date: 2003-04-19 04:04
Well the serial number could just be worn off.
However, the presence of the LP marking limits it to between the mid 1890s to mid 1930s. The donut key and wrap around register key were also popular during this time frame but don't limit it to this time frame like the presence of the LP marking.
The third ring for the left hand does not date it at all as this is an option that has been available for quite some time and is still available today. It is referred to as the forked Eb/Bb. It facilitates playing some otherwise difficult trills such as the Db to Eb in the lower register and the corresponding Ab to Bb in the clarion register.
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Author: moe
Date: 2003-04-19 04:05
Thanks Mark, I tried oil like you said but there is nothing visible to my eyes. I have to conclude that those tiny, lightly stamped numbers must have been worn away by handling over the years. The Buffet Crampon and Cie logo on the upper section is pretty faint as well. The Made in France and LP underneath the logos stood out a little clearer with the oil but is still extremely faint. I feel previleged to have had input from some of the BB regulars whose posts I have been reading for some time. Thanks all. Moe
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Author: moe
Date: 2003-04-19 04:14
Dee, thanks for your expertise. I'm thinking the clarinet is well worth restoring because it is pretty solid and has no cracks. You've given me a sense as to where to place it in the Buffet timeline. Moe
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