Advertising and Web Hosting on Woodwind.Org!

Woodwind.OrgThe Clarinet BBoardThe C4 standard

  BBoard Equipment Study Resources Music General    
 New Topic  |  Go to Top  |  Go to Topic  |  Search  |  Help/Rules  |  Smileys/Notes  |  Log In   Newer Topic  |  Older Topic 
 Older Buffet Key Design
Author: Ken Shaw 
Date:   1999-10-07 21:30

I've been asked to re-post a description of the differences between the key shapes on the older Buffets and the R-13s. Here it is:

Dee wrote:

Carl Fischer did not manufacture clarinets. Instead they
imported them or bought from US makers and distributed
them. *** I believe they also distributed horns by
Buffet under their own name but the only way to identify
them is to know enough about the details of the key
styling since in this case they did NOT include the
Buffet name on them.

Dee -

Here are some key styles that identify the older Buffets:

The C#/G# key for the left little finger has a flat spring rather than a needle spring. It is held on by a brass screw that goes all the way through from the bottom of the key to the top, so that the end of the screw is visible from the top of the key. Also, the hole that this key covers does not have a countersunk rim, but is even with the surface.

The F#/C# key for the right little finger has the same flat spring and screw design.

There is no adjusting screw on the throat Ab key.

The two long keys for the left little finger (for low E and F) are mounted concentrically on a single axle, like the two top trill keys.

If you hold the instrument horizontal with the bell to your right and look across at the two long keys for the left little finger, you will see a different shape from the modern keys. The keys arch higher and have an extended tip pointing down.

The first trill key for the left index finger (Eb/Bb) will stop against a small curved metal extension sticking out from the bottom of the post that holds the upper joint ring keys and the C#/G# key.

On the oldest instruments, the register key curves around to about the 11:00 position. Also, the thumb end of the key has the same extended tip as the left little finger keys, and there is a small depression carved out of the wood just above the thumb hole to accommodate the tip.

The left ring finger hole will be somewhat larger than in the modern design.

If the instrument has a ring for the left ring finger (to make the forked Eb/Bb with the left index and ring fingers), the tiny extra pad attached to the left middle finger ring in the modern design will not be there, and the left middle finger will have a large "pancake" key shaped like an open-hole flute key.

The bridge keys will have the edges rounded, and there will be no tabs to protect the keys as you put the instrument together.

The keys will be unplated German silver, which tarnishes to a flat, grayish silver color.

The thumb rest screws will be on two "ears" above and below the thumb rest, and the screw ears will be mortised into the wood.

The wood will in general be denser and more deeply dyed, so that it is difficult to see the grain.

The outside diameter of the instrument will be slightly smaller than the modern Buffet (though not nearly as small as the Elite), and the instrument will be a bit lighter in weight.

The serial number will match the Buffet series on Sneezy. It will be stamped twice on the back of the instrument, at the very top of the upper joint and the very bottom of the lower joint in small, lightly stamped letters and numbers. You will usually need to wet the surface slightly and use a magnifying glass under a strong light to read them accurately.

The keys were all hand forged, and the worker who made them stamped his initials in a favorite place, which varied from worker to worker but which was always hidden inside a pad cup.

I'm sure there are more differences. The easiest feature to see is the single axle for the left little finger keys. The feature that absolutely identifies a Buffet is the arch and extended tips on those keys, which can be produced only by laborious hand forging and would appear only on the top quality instruments. These will also identify Buffets made without a trademark and "stenciled" with other makers' marks.

Carl Fischer had the exclusive license to import Buffets in the later 1800s and the early 1900s and stamped their name on the bell of each imported instrument. I think I've seen stenciled instruments with this stamp, but don't hold me to it. By the 1950s, the Carl Fisher license had expired and the stamp was gone.

The instruments had a larger bore than the polycylindrical R-13. This gave them a larger but less centered tone. Also, the pitch could be lipped up or down further than it could on the smaller bore horns and was somewhat less stable. You have to *play* these instruments in tune rather than rely on them to be in tune. The instability can become unmanagable if the bore has been enlarged by years of swabbing. You always have to check the intonation on an old Buffet very carefully because of this.

Best regards.

Ken Shaw

Reply To Message
 RE: Older Buffet Key Design
Author: Meri 
Date:   1999-10-07 23:33

Just a question:

On what year or earlier should I look for these features, Ken?

Reply To Message
 RE: Older Buffet Key Design
Author: Doug P. 
Date:   1999-10-08 00:09

Thanks Ken. What a great list of mechanical descriptions of the pre-cylindrical R-13. It's already been made into a hard copy to go in my file of important clarinet technical matters. A few additions/corrections. When you write the "first trill key for the left index finger (Eb/Bb)"..etc. surely you mean right index finger, unless you have one of those magical lefthanded clarinets! Also
the rod for the throat G# key is shorter and its bottom post also serves as the endpost for the throat A key meeting it at a right angle. The true R-13 has two posts for the G# and two for the A; older instruments really have only three posts. Also the "pancake" key for second finger left hand was abandoned by Buffet much before the polycylindrical bore was marketed, so there are earlier Buffets that have a normal looking second ring along with the extra third finger ring. Thanks again for a great list. Wouldn't it be great to have a drawn or photographed comparison of these older and newer mechanisms...would be a great idea for an article in The Clarinet magazine. Doug P.

Reply To Message
 RE: Older Buffet Key Design
Author: Mark Charette 
Date:   1999-10-08 01:04

Doug P. wrote:
Thanks Ken. What a great list of mechanical descriptions of the pre-cylindrical R-13
Pre-polycylindrical (just in case you thought for a moment that Buffet was producing a soprano sax R-13 :^)

Reply To Message
 RE: Older Buffet Key Design
Author: Doug P. 
Date:   1999-10-08 22:36

Absolutely right, Mark. But then it might have been a
"Freudian" slip. Some of the early, large bore Buffets do indeed have a saxophone quality. Or maybe a large bore canon quality. Doug P.

Reply To Message
 Avail. Forums  |  Threaded View   Newer Topic  |  Older Topic 

 Avail. Forums  |  Need a Login? Register Here 
 User Login
 User Name:
 Remember my login:
 Forgot Your Password?
Enter your email address or user name below and a new password will be sent to the email address associated with your profile.
Search Woodwind.Org

Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

The Clarinet Pages
is sponsored by:

For Sale
Put your ads for items you'd like to sell here. Free! Please, no more than two at a time - ads removed after two weeks.

Great reeds available from around the world

Instrument repairs, restorations, adjustments, and overhauls.

Music & Books
CDs, Sheet Music, and some of the greatest reference books ever written!

Services and products too varied to categorize! Repair, recording, news

Mouthpieces & Barrels
Fine makers of mouthpieces and barrels, from wood to crystal to hard rubber and plastic

Accessories that every clarinetist needs - reed makers and shapers, ligatures, greases, oils, and preservatives ... and more!

Major events especially for clarinetists

Retailers and manufacturers of clarinets, both modern and early replica

     Copyright © Woodwind.Org, Inc. All Rights Reserved    Privacy Policy    Contact