 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ctt489
Date: 2003-04-09 22:09
I was advised not to ever draw my silk swab through mouthpieces, however does anyone use a different method of cleaning of the mouthpiece? Is it wise/safe to just take it off and put it back in the case? Also is it good/safe to soak a new or used mouthpiece in Fresh Burst Listerine (green) without dunking the cork in it? It's good to kill germs, but I was wondering if it does damage to the hard-rubber mouthpiece.
Maybe the good Doc has information on this.
Thanks
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Author: CharmOne
Date: 2003-04-09 22:16
I used sterile ear swabs soaked with alcohol to clean the mouthpiece. It definately kills germs.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-04-09 23:40
Why not just give it a weekly bath, in cool water?
When finished, stand it up on the round end and allow it to air dry.
I use a toothbrush (gently) around the mouthpiece patch.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2003-04-10 01:04
Different individuals have different levels of build up of mineral deposits and these can be difficult to control without using a cleaner designed and tested for mouthpieces. The food particles and attendent bacteria and mold growth are easily cured by not playing soon after eating, brushing your teeth before playing when possible, and rinsing out the mouthpiece with plain cool water after every use. Shake out the water and let the mouthpiece air dry or put it in a protective cover that will allow water vapor to dissipate.
The Doctor
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2003-04-10 01:32
For mineral deposits I have had luck with plain white vinegar on a Q-tip. (Cleans mineral deposits off car windows too. A detailers secret.)
Mark
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2003-04-10 01:42
Mark has a good suggestion and a 1:3 (white vinegar to water) soak for about 1/2 hour also works for well for calcium deposits (usually the white deposits) that have not been allowed to build up greatly over time (and interact with other chemicals to form more difficult to remove compounds), however in certain individuals these deposits must have mixed sulfides and other mineral oxides which need a real chemical treatment (the active ingredient in vinegar is of course acetic acid) in addition to acetic acid.
The Doctor
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-04-10 03:24
Hi Doc,
So, what's the "need a real chemical treatment" you spoke about if the acetic acid does not do the job?
HRL
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-04-10 03:33
Hank Lehrer wrote:
> Hi Doc,
>
> So, what's the "need a real chemical treatment" you spoke about
> if the acetic acid does not do the job?
>
>
> HRL
I believe the "chemical treatment" would be hydrochloric acid. HCl. As pure as you can get it.
On second hand, scratch that. While it'd work on getting rid of those calcium deposits, I think you could probably lose some skin and a digit or two if it wasn't handled correctly. Never mind.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Clarence
Date: 2003-04-10 03:56
Besides a regular swabing of my mouthpieces, they also get a quick bath in isopropyl rubbing alcohol periodically. Never had a problem with deposits of any kind.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2003-04-10 10:53
I would not use concentrated HCl on a hard rubber mouthpiece - especially the older "classic" mouthpieces. The laundry list of potential deposits reads like an inorganic chemistry laboratory excercise and can include carbonates, sulfates, oxides, etc.. which are made and dissolved by different chemistry reactions. My point is that certain of these deposits cannot be easily dissolved by a mild acid such as acetic and need other added chemicals to react to dissolve or change the form (chemical nature) of the deposit so that it is removed more easily with a common solvent at a given pH. Not all deposits can be removed in an acid environment.
Without treading too far into Mark's gray zone let me indicate that I sell a proprietary mouthpiece cleaning solution concentrate that addresses the chemistry of safely removing inorganic mouthpiece deposits and also organic (food, bacterial, mold, etc.) in one treatment. Many deposits can be prevented by good oral hygiene, rinsing the mouthpiece with plain water after each use, or periodic treatment with agents such as a mild acetic acid solution or even mild soap and water. Certain deposits can change chemical character over time to form more difficult to remove forms if they are not removed quickly. In a certain minority of individuals the chemistry of their siliva forms deposits that build up more quickly and are the more resistant chemical forms. Great care should be exercised not to treat hard rubber mouthpieces with any chemical agents that have not been proven safe for use on hard rubber. Large, old deposits may need multiple treatments because there is a balance between strength of chemical agents used and the safety needed to protect the rubber of the mouthpiece.
The Doctor
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2003-04-10 14:23
Maybe someone could clarify something for me. Is there any problem with putting a corner of the swab through the mouthpiece, enough to dry the inside of the mouthpiece? I use a silk swab, and I don't draw it through but do use the material to dry my mouthpiece.
"Forgive--I here am new!"
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Author: Wayne Thompson
Date: 2003-04-10 15:15
Clarinetwife,
I think it is implied by all of the above responses that you should avoid drawing your swab through the mouthpiece. The problem is that you don't want to do anything that will wear away the inside of the mouthpiece and swabbing daily will do that. And mouthpiece diminsions are so critical that you will be gradually changing your instrument's playing characteristics. If you are sure that your method will not wear on it, then it's ok. I would say, don't worry about the daily moisture, just put the mouthpiece away. As suggested above, wash it every once in a while in cool water with mild soap, and deal with the harder deposits if you have them, using whatever suggestions above that work for you.
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Author: William
Date: 2003-04-10 15:34
I've always had good results with just immersing my mpcs in any "over the counter" Lime A Way type products from under my kitchens sink. After a couple of minutes of soaking, all calcium and other "grunge" is easily removed by care wiping with any paper towel. I usually followup with soap and lukewarm water to finish the cleaning. This has worked on my newer Zinner mpcs as well as my vintage Kaspars and various metal sax mpcs--and with no discoloration or other visable side effects.
The white viniger treatment also makes sense and seems like a good method to try--if you are a "do-it-yourselfer." If not, The Doctors Product is proably the way to go for overall ease of cleaning and personal equipement safety issues.
BTW--I am fanatical about always brushing my teeth before playing any instrument--clarinet, sax, flute or even the trumpet (which I also play). To prove my obssesive compulseive brushing behavior, I carry a tooth brush and tube of toothpaste in every musical instrument case I own and am often seen practicing my compulsive behavior while dressed in my tux at the pulbic mens room sink of whatever the current performance venue may be--after "scarfing up" any (and sometimes, all) of the hors doeuvres (free goodies) that may be lying about the "buffett". I consider my embouchure an important component of my playing equipement and see no reason for swabbing my clarinets if I do not take the time to brush the old "pearlie whites."
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-04-10 15:54
I'm an advocate for vinegar, brushing and "water-pick[ing}' teeth, NOT eating while playing, partic, peanuts!, only "mildly" brushing/swabbing mps, unless they are glass!! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-04-11 08:06
Just wanna put in, just so people don't think I'm a freak, the first post was a joke. With HCl. I'm not a chemist, but I did take chemistry courses recently and remember that being a VERY strong acid so I figured it'd be a quick "ha ha" to those who remembered/knew that. Also why I put in the "on second thought" clause. So no one tried it and got hurt in the process.
Also, don't worry about swabbing if you have a glass/crystal mouthpiece (like mentioned above) because those will wear away at the swab instead of the other way around. With a crystal mouthpiece, it's VERY dificult to change them because more often than not, they are harder than the substance you apply to them (and wear a MP patch unless your front teeth are too long and you need to shorten them).
I was wondering, would giving the mp a bath once a week mess up the cork on the mouthpiece? I didn't know whether the water would soak into the cork and ruin it quicker than not.
And in case this thread goes dead before I get my answer, I'll just post again under a new heading.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-04-11 12:15
Nah... don't do that.
Maybe you could look through the library here, and read the myriad responses this thread has generated in the past?
From that, you may be able to see a trend.
Then again, I guess it was too much trouble the first time around, hmmm?
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2003-04-11 12:43
William:
I would think you wouldn't want to use paper towel on your mpc bore. Wood-based fibers are known for their ability to scratch even glass & I would think the hard rubber of the mpc is considerably softer. A cotton cloth would be much less prone to scratching the mpc bore.
MOO,
Matt
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-04-11 13:37
Personally I am of the opinion that drawing a silk swab through a mouthpiece after use is not going to do any significant harm assuming that no metal weight rubs against it. The term "swab" used to imply the semi rigid cleaners composed of fibre held in place by twisted wires. Those swabs probably should not be used on mouthpieces since it is practically impossible to prevent the wire from rubbing the mouthpiece. Storing HCl on one's premises, much less using it, is asking for serious trouble as it is an extremely dangerous acid both in the concentrated and diluted conditions.
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Author: Hermann
Date: 2003-04-11 17:31
See the tips here:
http://www.aw-reeds.de/en/tipps.html
[Hermann,
While these are good tips, please next time indicate that you are referring people to your own commercial site. I notice now that you advertised your site once before. That's not permitted, especially in the direct context you did previously. Mark C.]
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Author: buddyjr
Date: 2003-04-11 17:47
warm water saturated with lemon juice seems to do the trick for me....live the mouthpiece in the solution for 5 minutes, then use a baby toothbrush to scrub the inside....
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2003-04-12 00:00
With so many contributors there are now a host of suggestions for cleaning solutions. The readers should be cautioned that I feel that some of them are not appropriate (just my humble opinion) - e.g. the denture cleaning tablets, or even lemon juice because of the potential chemical reactions with the rubber and the vulcanizing residues found on some of the older "classic" mouthpieces. As with any advice on the BB the reader should weigh the evidence against what they know to be true, or there is scientific evidence or longitudinal data to support the reccommendations.
Often my scientific evidence is not enumerated, but unlike my day job where scientific publications are compiled and credited toward job performance, in the wonderful world of commercial trade there are only disadvantages to showing your data and comparing various compounds used in a product formulary. As a scientist you must keep credibility which means that you do not communicate in public forums without experimental evidence to back up your words. Many times chemical reactions just appear in my head when I know the two reactants and the conditions (this is when you know you have been a chemist too long!). Some of these reactions may take place very slowly over time but this is the experimental step which follows the postulate of the potential reaction mechanism. This R & D phase is the expensive part of getting a product to market and is difficult to recoup with a product that has a direct price competitor or home brew formulations. It is a good thing that I have a day job to support my passion for music and making products for musicians.
When using any mouthpiece cleaner it is wise to keep the level of the solution in the treatment chamber below the cork. Many of the solutions reccommended will accelerate the breakdown of the cork. Paper towels are abrasive (I often use them to put a final fine polish on wood finishes after fine sandpaper or steel wool).
The Doctor
Post Edited (2003-04-12 01:26)
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Author: Clarinetter
Date: 2003-04-12 18:58
I have to admit that I swab my mouthpiece with a silk swab. There are just too many gigs, rehearsals, and meals on the run to do a proper post-playing rinse and dry routine. I am usually the last person out of the band room as it is with careful swabbing and disassembly.
In my opinion, swabbing a mouthpiece with a silk swab after a rehearsal or gig does not cause enough wear to worry about. I have experimented with reworking the baffels of old mouthpieces and was surprised at how well hard rubber holds up to even intentional "wear." Many of us go on mouthpiece quests every few years anyway whether we swab, rinse, soak, acid bathe, brush, or do nothing after playing.
Brian
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Author: funkymunky
Date: 2003-04-12 20:44
Doesnt everyone love the smell of old rubber. I liked it so much I took some toothpaste and scrubbed it with my finger. mmm nice toothpaste smell now. Hasnt anyone heard of a mouthpiece brush. I use mine with regular liquid hand soap. Nice and clean and toothpaste smelly.
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