 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2003-03-20 21:23
I have a Vito Resotone that I got on ebay for $45. Now it needs a complete repad job. I'm wondering if I should put $150 into a repad for this horn or if I'd be better off to spend that and a little more and get a new student horn. In other words, do you think a new student horn like a Buffet B-12 or Vito 7212 would be a better horn than my Vito, which most people seem to rate pretty well.
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2003-03-20 22:24
I think the Vito Resotone was a fairly nice playing clarinet. I don't think you could buy a new B12 for $195. Even if you got the B12 or new Vito, you would still have a student instrument. Repad the Vito or save up for a good used pro line clarinet.
jbutler
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-03-20 22:31
I can't be trusted, as I do my own Clarinet repadding (not a very heroic task). But $150 sounds high for a repad job.
Regards,
John
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2003-03-20 22:48
Jim,
Perhaps it might be (too high) where you live. Local economics drive prices. In this area a clarinet repad is $149 plus parts/tax and usually comes out to about $160. It's been that price for almost two years now. I'm sure it hasn't caught up to the "cost of living". I've always wondered why people think that instrument repair costs are "too high" and then don't think a thing about spending several hundred dollars on auto repair.
When was the last time anyone tried to have electronics repaired? Most electronics are considered "throw aways" now. It's cheaper to go out and buy a new DVD or television that it is to get it fixed. I'm sure that the instrument makers can start marketing "throw aways". Go out an buy a $150 clarinet and when it wears out replace it with another $150 clarinet. (Wait a minute, I think there are some on eBay as we speak, Bestler, Parrot, Lark, etc.)
NAPBIRT used to publish average repair prices by geographical area about once every two years or so, but that hasn't been done in a long time. I'm sure there are areas of the country that are higher than the above price and I'm sure that there might be places where the prices are lower. Also, one has to consider what a repad "is". What one shop may include in a repad, another may not. Finally, repadding is not simply replacing pads. It also entails making sure that the clarinet is in good mechanical condition as well.
jbutler
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Author: hans
Date: 2003-03-20 23:12
If the $150 new pads last for 5 years (they will probably last much longer), that is only $2.50 per month. Looks like a good value for the money to me.
Hans
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-03-20 23:20
What Hans said...
Two bills for a working Vito is a good price.
Don't discount the play-ability of a properly adjusted Vito Resotone... just because they're commonly available, they are often maligned.
With a good reed on a comfortable mouthpiece, you will have a lovely horn.
Keep it clean and in good repair, you will be able to get your $200 back out in September (band kids - Unite!)...
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-03-21 02:10
jbutler: It's more my lack of knowledge rather than where I live. As said, don't trust me on the topic of Clarinet repair costs. So, $150 is pretty good for repadding a Clarinet? Well, whaddaya know.
By the way, speaking of electronics repair: a very large replacement picture tube can cost more than a new set, and that doesn't include installation. Individual handling and test costs from a manufacturer can be stiff.
Regards,
John
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2003-04-04 02:22
Thank you for all your comments, which were very helpful. I had it overhauled, got it back today, and it plays wonderfully, so you were right.
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2003-04-04 04:15
The clarinet was $45 on ebay. The repad was $160 including tax, and I purchased a Hite Premier mouthpiece a while back for about $22.
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Author: Dee
Date: 2003-04-04 16:16
I wouldn't count the cost of the mouthpiece as no matter what horn youi got you would more than likely have needed to get something other than the stock mouthpiece.
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Author: funkymunky
Date: 2003-04-05 00:27
Not hard or expensive to buy a screwdriver some pads and contact cement.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-04-05 00:31
funkymunky wrote:
> Not hard or expensive to buy a screwdriver some pads and
> contact cement.
Contact cement??
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-04-05 00:40
Yeah... when you're making a lamp, you want the pads to stick!
*****
Hey leaonardA... howzat horn?
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2003-04-06 14:04
"Hey leaonardA... howzat horn?"
It plays very well. Nice tone, and crossing the break is much easier.
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Author: funkymunky
Date: 2003-04-09 03:38
Of course contact cement, that stuff in the auto parts store. Dries faster and is less messy than usual "pad and cork cement". It has worked very well for all the things I use it for on my clarinets. Nothing has fallen off yet. I guess the long term effectiveness will be up to the test. Oh and it is much, much easier to clean after its dry. While "pad and cork cement" is easier to clean while it is wet, but much harder to clean while dry.
Shellac? ...............never tried never will
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-04-09 03:42
funkymunky wrote:
> Of course contact cement, that stuff in the auto parts store.
> Dries faster and is less messy than usual "pad and cork
> cement". It has worked very well for all the things I use it
> for on my clarinets. Nothing has fallen off yet. I
And how are you floating the larger pads?
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-04-09 04:13
I was thinking of using contact cement to redo my other clarinet. I figured for the larger pads I'd put a ring of cement around the edge of the key. That way you basically are just gluing the outside edge of the pad, which is all I would think you need since that is the part that will be contacting the tone hole. Also, when you give it a little "nudge" into place, the cement will hopefully take the path of least resistance (inwards where there isn't any) and will minimize the messy cleanup after the normal "floating" of pads.
This is kind of a post just to get a reaction to my idea and to let Mark know cause I think this is what needs to be done to "float" the pads using contact cement.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-04-09 06:15
Call me crazy -- on second thought, please don't -- but I have always used Micro Cement (with heat) for pads, the way I first learned to do it. Never had a problem. Plenty of people seem to do it that way still, as Ferree's sells the stuff in rather huge containers (one would be more than a lifetime supply for me).
But hot glue (from-the-gun-type stuff) is said to work very well and is now commonly used. Can anyone give any ideas on which type? The hot, or the *very* hot? Any other tips, especially with leather pads?
And leonardA, congratulations on having a Clarinet that plays wonderfully for not a whole lot of bux.
Thanks and regards,
Joh
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-04-09 14:26
So many times I have tried to correct the seating of a pad, and tried, and tried, and tried, and then given up and taken the pad out, only to find it was that damn contact glue!
That has wasted so much of my time.
I would never regard its use as a sign of quality repair work, which incidentally calls for full support right across the back of the pad.
Contact glue is excellent for key and linkage corks, and tenon corks. Not pads!
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-04-09 14:54
I use the lower melting point hot glue available in the Walmart crafts.
They should also stock the 'Tacky glue' used for fabric and case repairs.
The top pros I know use shellac-without exception. There is less dimensional change with shellac when floating pads.
I can't stand the smell of that stuff and use the hot glue mainly out of familiarity over the years. I slice it into small pieces and heat the key with a butane-burning torch.
It really comes down to your training. If you're making it up as you go along, heed the advice of the pros... they really know what they're up to.
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Author: funkymunky
Date: 2003-04-09 18:20
Actually I use the "micro cement" for the small pads and the Contact for the big ones. While you are suppose to let it dry before using I use it a little early to level the pads. Just take a screwdriver or toothpick to move pad around and close it with a wedge under the key. Just have to eyeball the pad reall good under a lamp while closing the key repeatdly and "nudge" with a toothpick to find that perfect seat. Then just lightly stick a wedge enough to barely seat it. maybe ill learn to be patient and wait for the slow micro cement to work on the larger ones. I know I should use shellac........
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-04-09 19:55
Most well-experienced repair people I know use nothing but flaked shellac for pads. When I use Micro, after applying the stuff in the pad cup and putting on the pad, I heat the cup to help drive off the volatiles. Without that action, the Micro cement takes a long time to dry and doesn't seem to have the strength of the stuff that's "cooked" a bit.
For corks, "Super Glue" brand contact cement is really super. I wopuld never use it on pads, though.
I'll try the low-temp hot glue soon. Thanks for the input.
Regards,
Joh
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Author: Wes
Date: 2003-04-09 20:52
Stick shellac is still what I need to use for pads. The manufacturers are now often using hot glue while they used to use white French stick shellac. The reason I prefer brown stick shellac is that it's melting time when shifting pads in their cups with an alcohol burner is known to me. Other glues take different times which I'm not used to. To use contact cement for pads makes shifting of pads impossible at a later date, which is often needed for a good seal. Clarinets are much easier to overhaul than oboes, saxes, flutes or bassoons, by the way. Good luck.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-04-10 14:19
JMcAulay wrote "Most well-experienced repair people I know use nothing but flaked shellac for pads"
I don't think so. They mostly use either STICK shellac or glue gun glue, the latter probably being more common for clarinets, possibly just copying the manufacturers, who probably use the gun glue for reasons of efficient mass production and price.
The stick shellac is either amber (more common for sax work) or cream (known as French Cement).
Flakes are very messy to use compared with sticks, because a very useful technique is to heat the stick to apply glue to the back of a pad. One cannot do this with flakes.
I don't think any experienced technician would use liquid or paste shellac. The job is not done until the glue has set, and behind a pad this can take weeks unless all the alcohol is evaporated (by heating just the right amount) from the paste first, at which point it becomes identical to melted stick shellac. So what is the point of starting with the paste.
I prefer shellac because it does not make messy 'threads' like glue gun glues tend to do, and also because I am a fast worker - shellac sets firm far faster than the gun glues. However I have recently had to change to gun-type glue after buying a higher quality pad which seems to have a coating on the back to which shellac does not stick well.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-04-10 18:34
Gordon, "Most well-experienced repair people I know..." do not use stick shellac, they use flake shellac. The amber stuff. I make no claim to know every repair person on Earth, hence I offer no argument to your suggestion that most of them use stick shellac.
Regards,
John
internationally-known pedant
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-04-11 03:41
My evidence comes from a forum for technicians, where pad glues are often discussed, but I don't recal flake shellac ever being discussed.
That forum seems pretty representative of repairers, including some key Napbirt types, but I may be deluded. Note that few repair supply places sell flake shellac.
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