 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: wjk
Date: 2003-04-08 18:32
I'm curious how others handle the issue of payment-ie, will you accept a gig for a small fee in the hopes of attracting more and better paying gigs, or will you hold out for your "price?" Most of my experience has been with better paying corporate gigs, but music is by no means my primary means of support (I'm the first to admit I don't have the talent to make music my primary career!). Since any gig to me is a major ego boost and means for relaxation, I've been inclined to accept any fee with little or no negotiating. What do others do ?
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-04-08 18:47
Due to the present economy, our big band has gladly negotiated a smaller fee for some of our traditional long term yearly clients.
The band decided that it was much better to keep working and keep our faithful clients happy, than to risk losing the gig to a competing group. It wasn't worth the $$ to lose the trust and good will of the customers who have traditionally hired us over the years.
As a result we have kept our foot in the door, generated lots of good feelings, and the added visibility has led to other gigs.
Our booking agent does all our negotiating for us (well worth his small stipend), and he is very sensitive to current economic conditions and what the market will bear. He is flexible, fair, and always has both the band and client's best interests at heart...GBK
Post Edited (2003-04-08 20:01)
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Author: msloss
Date: 2003-04-08 19:19
Slippery slope. If you create the impression you will work for less, you become worth less. There is a very delicate balancing act between being entrepreneurial and opening doors and being perceived as working cheap out of desperation. Early in my career I made the mistake of agreeing to take gigs on the cheap in the hopes of getting better-paying calls. Finally broke off my relationship with that contractor because I was only getting calls for the stuff all the smart guys had turned down.
I'd recommend you do something free as an attention getter or fund raiser for a public venue (library, museum, etc.). Invite prospective clients and make sure you have permission to record the performance for future use as a promotional tool. Then, ask your price. People will perceive you according to how you portray yourself. If you are uncompromising (within reason, of course) you create the aura of someone confident in their talent and aware of their value.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-04-08 20:57
What msloss said, if you work cheap you are cheap.
Word of low price bookings will spread like wildfire... and that's what you'll get... low paying gigs.
If you have a steady gig, with dwindling attendance, that's another story.
If you're starting out, don't underprice your services.
It will be VERY difficult to 'book up'.
Figure your drive and set up time as part of the package.
Your local should be able to tell you what scale is, anyway.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2003-04-08 21:16
Additionally, if you continuously book cheaply, you may run the risk of "stealing" gigs from folks who DO use them as a primary means of support.
Post Edited (2003-04-08 22:17)
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Author: wjk
Date: 2003-04-08 22:23
I don't agree completely. My corporate clients are well-healed and can afford to hire Eddie Daniels if they so desire. I believe they hire me because I can tailor a musical message to a particular corporate theme, if that is what is desired. My musical "talent" becomes secondary in such a role. The nursing homes that I play gratis also hire professional musicians and pay them very well. My gratis performances in no way under-cut the "pros" or take gigs away from them. I simply serve a different role.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2003-04-08 22:39
That's cool, wjk, I just wanted to point out that (at least in my area) there are folks who would hire "semi-pros" instead of "pros" if they could get a financial break...
In other words, they're "cheap s.o.b.s"!!!!
Katrina
Post Edited (2003-04-08 23:40)
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2003-04-09 00:54
Sailors on barges?
Spoilers of babies?
Singers of ballads?
Sons of bassoonists?
I guess I lead a sheltered life.
Todd W. :+))
P.S. Robert Benchley: My friends refer to me as Silly Old Bob, or sometimes just by the initials.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2003-04-09 08:27
I love the malapropism of nursing home executives being well-healed.
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Author: Morrigan
Date: 2003-04-09 09:29
I get very occasional 'gigs' (I'm still only a student). I guess at this stage, I'll take anything, for exposure, and at this point, I don't NEED to work to survive. But what I am aiming for is the day I can reject smaller gigs in favour of better paid ones.
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Author: donald
Date: 2003-04-09 09:59
i've started saying NO to CRAP GIGS no matter how much money they offer me. I'll do WORTHWHILE GIGS for free. Interpret this how you will- i'm not a rich man by any means (though i did just buy me a 1990 Toyota Corolla- for me that's pretty flash!), but crap gigs make me feel like, well, crap. and then i write grumpy posts on sneezy. It's just not worth it!!!!!
donald
ps- please don't start trying to define "crap" and "worthwhile", these will of course mean something different to everyone, let's just leave it that way
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-04-09 12:12
I suppose anything requiring you to double on Cowbell qualifies as crap.
And if I never see 'The sun and moon' again, it will be too soon...
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Author: jez
Date: 2003-04-09 13:15
I used to play with a small chamber group (4tet) and I remember an enquiry coming in from a concert society to book us. When it came to talking money we quoted our usual fee but they said that, as it was the last of their season they only had £**** left in their budget, would we do it for that. The player who handled these things replied; "We do sometimes do concerts for less, but I really don't recommend them!"
jez
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2003-04-09 20:49
Although I rarely disagree with Hizzoner S. Botch, I must take issue with "....anything requiring you to double on Cowbell qualifies as crap." For many years I played in Top-40/wedding bands, generally as the sole horn player, which required me to play sax and occasionally flute on maybe 20-50% of the tunes, but for the rest I played various hand-held percussion noisemakers, including cowbell (of which I have 2 sizes). Many of those gigs were not only lucrative, but fun as well, despite the cowbell-playing aspect. The reason I did this was that I discovered early on it was better to be onstage with the rest of the band for EVERY tune, playing something, than hopping off and on the stage as a 'part-time' player the way most horn players handle such gigs. Not only did I keep busy and feel more like a band member by playing percussion, but the bands appreciated my giving them a little bit extra compared to most of your typical "union-like" horn players.
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Author: Wes
Date: 2003-04-09 20:58
Be careful with the nursing home gigs. Those places don't often have good ventillation and the air is full of germs. After coming down with the flu several times after playing them, I'd rather not do them.
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Author: Tom A
Date: 2003-04-10 01:31
"The issue of money"?
For some of my colleagues, that's a contradiction in terms. It doesn't get issued, they have to fight for it.
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Author: chuck
Date: 2003-04-10 02:12
I take exception to WES's comments re "good ventilation and air is full of germs". I, and many of my colleagues, have been playing regularly at convalescent homes in the San Diego area for some time with no ill effects. Also, granting the level of medical/nursing expertise I see in staffing, I would assume (and I think justifiably) that ventilation/sanitation/vector control would be paramount in administrative thought and practice. I would hope that the warning against taking nursing home gigs will not deter some of this BB's readers from taking music to shut-ins. These audiences truly need us, and the rewards of performing are off the chart. Chuck
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2003-04-10 02:18
This is a sticky subject! Our trio is going to play for free at a Women's Club but we only have to play for one hour. It is close to home. The lady said she would make sure next time we get paid well, they just ran out of money. She said, "We will make sure you get on the musicians list."
We played once for free at the Elks Club. This was for exposure and thinking they would hire us back. Yes, they called and said they would like us to play again, FREE. We didn't go.
We have four jobs coming up at the Moose Lodge. These we made darn sure we are getting paid for! And they will pay us well. Yay.
I don't mind playing for free, for a worthy cause, in fact it can be a real good feeling. But then there are times when you feel like you are being used and that is not a good feeling.
I play for free with the Jammers at the Jazz Society a couple of times a month. We play between sets of the paid bands. This I do for fun, for learning experience, and because you just can't beat it for meeting lots and lots of area musicians. I never even think about the fact that there is no pay involved. Guess it all depends on the circumstances of where you are and what you are doing.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2003-04-11 03:19
It is never smart to play OR teach cheap. The service costs what it costs, and I can tell you firsthand what the consequences are of compromising on that--and they're not just financial.
I do agree with those who are saying that you should do something gratis for exposure. Rest homes are a good venue for this. This allows you to do something totally advantageous to you, rather than providing an unappreciated utility for someone else at a cut rate.
The author of "Making Money Making Music" puts forth what I think is a satisfying strategy for those who are offered a non-paying gig for audition purposes: Agree to play one set gratis. If the club owner is satisfied, he can pay the group, who will then continue to play. If the club owner does not wish to pay, the band will simply pack up and leave.
Among cheap gigs that my band IS willing to play:
1 - A one-hour performance at a local library, where we can invite students to hear the group and see how it works. We can also invite prospective clients.
2 - An in-school performance where we can demonstrate our ability, network with band directors, troll for private students, and invite the press.
Charity benefits? Fat chance! Are they getting the hall or the caterer cheap or free? How would the pay of a musician at such an event compare to that of a waiter or waitress at the same event? Are professional fundraisers giving the charity a break on their commissions? Me no think so...
Allen Cole
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