 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-04-08 05:19
I am still not POSITIVE . . . does intonation on a clarinet mean the same thing as "tuning"? A search on the BBoard got me tons of posts on how to fix it or problems with it, and a search on the internet dictionaries I use were of no help either. And I don't have a regular dictionary (in our house apparently everyone is expected to KNOW what words mean). Dumb question cause I'm pretty sure it is with how everyone uses it, but I just want to be SURE.
Alexi
PS - Another apology for a question like this. You'd think that I'd have learned this by now.
US Army Japan Band
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2003-04-08 07:49
Yes, intonation is a fancy word for "being in tune."
From my experience, "tuning" is often used to mean "in tune with the tuning note" or "in tune with a tuner," while "intonation" means "tuning with respect to your section and/or ensemble."
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-04-08 12:04
I've been under the impression that intonation also meant the relationship among the notes playable on a clarinet(or other instr.) with respect to their being individually "in tune".
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Author: Karel
Date: 2003-04-08 13:55
Is "tuning" not related to the cycles representing a note as in A=440 or 442. Using a tuner would determine the accuracy or otherwise of a note being played. Or can tuning be a subjective phenomenon? That would seem at odds with the laws of physics, would it not?
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Author: Fred
Date: 2003-04-08 13:56
Intonation:
"You must become one with the instrument, Grasshopper . . . ."
"But Master Po . . . it is flawed . . . full of contradictions. Will not becoming one with such an instrument result in disharmony?"
"If one is to attain intonation, Grasshopper, the player must accept the flaws and contradictions of life, and make them a part of his mastery. Only then will your strengths will overcome its' weaknesses."
"And how do I do this, Master?"
"Do you not hear the wind blowing through the trees . . . the sound of water dripping from the leaves . . . and the gentle rumble of a passing thunderstorm?"
"Yes, Master"
"Would you do anything to change these sounds?"
"No, Master . . . they are as they are intended to be. I would do nothing to change them."
"Now listen to the sound of the instrument. Listen to how it blends with those around it. Do you not hear when the voices are as one? Or can you not hear when its' voice is in conflict with those around it? Would you do anything to change these sounds?"
"I would change the voice that brings conflict, Master, so that all is in harmony."
"But what if the voice of conflict is true, and all the others are false? Would you achieve harmony by exchanging the truth for a lie?"
"No, Master . . . I would change the false voices and make them true."
"In your hearing, the false voices are like the sounds of the wind, the water, and the thunder. They are beyond your touch. If harmony is to be achieved, you must become one with them and flow with them. Only then will you find the path of intonation."
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Author: Karel
Date: 2003-04-08 15:28
Grasshopper may get a bit confused between the concept of unison, even if "out of tune", and the concept of a pure note. The idea of true tone as verified by an instrument is surely our attempt to allow multiple instruments to play notes which have a "clean" relationship to each other so avoiding cacophony in place of harmony. I like your story, Fred, but to my mind it is steeped in "fuzzy logic" that confuses instead of clarifying. I am not sure where it leads, if anywhere.
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Author: Donn
Date: 2003-04-08 15:33
I consider Fred's reply to be one one the best I have read on this BB. I hope all the denizens of this site have the opportunity to see it!
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Author: Ray
Date: 2003-04-08 17:11
Here's another, simple-minded way to look at it:
Put your setup on a clarinet. Tune open G (with a tuner) by pulling the barrel. Tune C by pulling the middle joint.
Now, play other notes and see how close to the tuner they are with no efforts on your part (embouchure, air) to adjust them. You may need to have a friend observe the tuner (and hide it from you) to prevent your reacting to the needle position and then making adjustments.
If they are very close, that instrument (with your setup) has good intonation. If they vary, sharp and flat, some a little, some a lot, that instrument (with your setup) has poor intonation.
Ray
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-04-08 18:05
I have always considered intonation to be one's tuning in relationship to the ensmble one is playing in....this is the tricky part of the matter. As to solo alone once again one strives for overall tuning within the context of the piece you are playing.
Electronic instruments which are perfectly in tune most difficult to work with...ie electronic piano and synthetic sounds....
David Dow
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2003-04-08 19:44
Here is an example of intonation where the question of who is "right " on the pitch is irrelevant. In my woodwind quintet, we are playing the Beethoven OP 71. In the second movement there is a theme that the clarinet plays with the oboe, and then later on the clarinet plays the same theme with the flute, who is one octave above where the oboe was. When I duet with the oboe, I have to put RH fingers down, on my open G in particular, for us to be in tune. When I play with the flute I typically do not have to put fingers down to bring down the pitch. Intonation in this case is knowing the tuning tendencies of my own horn, but also listening for the tendencies of the other voices.
Happy Tuning!
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2003-04-09 04:29
Intonation also relates to the harmonic content of the music. Most instruments (disregarding quirks of the instrument) are even-tempered. As a side-effect of this, the 5th of chords runs a bit flat, the 3rd of minor chords flat, and the 3rd of major chords sharp (etc.). So the exact same E might be in tune at one part of the piece, and horribly flat or sharp at another. The fact that all instruments are doing this at the same time simply compounds the problem.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-04-09 05:05
Or you can raise the 5ths(playing them slightly high) as some orchestras do in Europe by listening carefully...I believe this creates something of an organ like sound.....the Vienna philharmonic seems to do this somewhat aand the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam have a whole way of tuning quite different from any orchestra on earth....trlistening to a recording to see what I mean...
clarinetwife sounds like the clarinet you are playing is running a bit high....try to get the unisons in tune as possible and then head straight for the octaves.....
David Dow
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Author: clarinetwife
Date: 2003-04-09 15:40
D Dow wrote:
>
> clarinetwife sounds like the clarinet you are playing is
> running a bit high....try to get the unisons in tune as
> possible and then head straight for the octaves.....
>
Actuallly, I think the flute and I probably both go a little high on the upper notes of that melody. But, the passage works because we all listen. I don't often get to practice myself with a tuner because when I get my horn out I tend to get little 4-year-old and 2-year-old fingers messing with it!
"Forgive--I here am new!"
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