 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2003-04-05 02:16
If you wanted to switch to a synthetic pad, which color would you choose? Woud you choose white which would give you a good seal and a 2 to 3 yr life span or would you choose grey which would provide you with superior sealing and give you a 10 to 15yr life span?
How important is the color of your pads?
Just curious...
Dan
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2003-04-05 02:51
Good topic, Dan.
I choose white; for cosmetic reasons, traditional color, and ease in finding problems.
Good luck with your new pads, they play great!
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Fred
Date: 2003-04-05 03:15
John is a professional player and he undoubtedly keeps his instruments in top notch condition. As a more casual player, I'd rather have the gray pads that keep going . . . and going . . . and going. It's more the wash-and-wear vs. laundered choice.
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-04-05 05:53
I use leather because of their durability. If that is what you are after why use skin at all?
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Author: DezzaG
Date: 2003-04-05 07:37
Well so far my Greenback Valentinos(White on the top) have been great(a bit over a year), not too much indentation like the old ones, and they are so reliable, dont need to worry about skins and water!! They seal much better than the oringal skin ones I had from Buffet.
Dezza
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2003-04-05 11:32
A mechanical overhaul would be necessary long before the pads wear out IF they do last for 10 to 15 years. As mechanisms become loose the reliability of the pad seating becomes questionable. The pads will still need to be replaced during the mechanical overhaul to insure proper seating.
jbutler
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Author: PJ
Date: 2003-04-06 00:59
What about cork? Both my horns have cork pads on the upper joint that were put on over 10 years ago. Talk about going and going and going! I found a guy that cut each pad out of a sheet of cork rather than using something precut out of synthetic material. It didn't cost that much either compared to several repads through the years that I would have needed. As for the lower joints, my professors at the time suggested leather on the bottom, but I never did it. I still have the skin pads on the bottom and they still work great. I will eventually upgrade when I have the bottom ones replaced.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2003-04-06 04:34
My thanks to all of you for your informative comments. I appologize in taking so long to respond. It's tax time and... well...do I need to say any more!
To Mark Pinner: I've heard about the durability of leather. But, to my understanding, they require special care to keep them pliable. Do you treat you pads with anything special? Any further input would be much appreciated.
To DezzaG: IMO, Valentino pads have several drawbacks. I've installed quite a few so I have some experience in this area.
1) If the tone hole is right on the edge of the cup, the Valentino may not be able to cover it. I have a few clarinets where the compression ring is right on the edge of the pad. IMO, this is not a desireable situation.
2) As has been noted before on this BB, the Valentino may require just a little extra pressure to produce the full tone. I know...I've experienced this. When I took the offending pad out and replaced it with a softer synthetic, the problem went away, i.e., I could produce the whole sounding tone with a light touch.
To PJ: Yes, cork can last a long time. But, to my understanding, the drawback that they have is that they are or can be quite noisy especially on faster pieces of music. Do you notice this on your instrument? Also, there is no "natural give"...They behave like switches. Have you noticed this in your playing?
To jbutler: Your comments on leather, cork, and Valentino's, I'm sure, would be quite valuable in educating all of us. Please expound on your experience with these three.
To Fred: I understand where you're coming from. I'm a casual player myself and would want my pads to last a long time without any extra care required on my part.
To JJM: Thank you for your kind words. Hopefully, this week, another horn will be heading your way.
Please keep the comments coming. That's the only way I can learn.
Thanks,
Dan
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Author: PJ
Date: 2003-04-06 04:45
To answer your question on cork:
No, I've not noticed them to be noisy. Like I said before, I've heard of some repairpersons using pre-cut synthetic cork pads. This could be why some clarinetists get this result. Mine were custom cut the day they were installed from sheets of cork (I watched him do it). When the guy installed them, he pressed the keys down and clamped them for so long so that they had an impression of the tone hole in them ensuring proper seating. I've had them on my horns for almost as long as I've owned them and have yet to have any noise problems or leaks. They're not proned to water damage, so for me this is best.
Hope this answers your questions and helps you as well. Good luck in your quest!
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-04-06 05:31
2-3 years pad life!!
That is totally unacceptible! I'd see my customers too often and get less free time.
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Author: Dan Shusta
Date: 2003-04-06 05:37
To Gordon (NZ): So, you're in favor of a 10-15yr pad life? Would you be willing to let us know what kind of pads you install that have an extended pad life?
This could lead into a very interesting discussion...
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Author: jbutler ★2017
Date: 2003-04-06 13:06
A mechanical overhaul on a clarinet is probably due every five to six years depending on the amount of playing. Six hours of play every day may result in more frequent attention, say every two to three years. In order to ensure that pads seats properly new pads need to be installed. That's why I don't understand the need for a 10 to 15 year pad.
Dan:
Double Bladder: Easy to install, quiet, and will last quite a long time if proper care is taken of instrument. The pad may pick up staining from wood oils, but as long as the skin isn't compromised they will serve well.
Cork: A little noisier, more expensive due to labor involved (beveling and hand facing). They will last a very long time.
Valentino: Moisture resistant, very quiet, good for outdoor use instruments, unsure of practical use in larger key cups more prone to air leakage.
Leather: Usually too thick and many adjustments have to be made to get correct voicing. Unless treated (like Pisoni "MyPad") are not waterproof. I don't think IMHO the best choice for upper joint use where more moisture collects. My least favorite choice for pad selection (personal taste).
jbutler
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-04-06 13:47
Also Norbek, which I have sometimes used where water is a problem. They stick very slightly to the tone holes, being solid silicon rubber - I think - which many player probably would not like. They need perfect tone hole edges and tight pivots on the keys because they never get an indentation. They probably last many decades. accurate installation is crucial.
All leather pads I have seen, like the synthetics and cork, are restricted in diameter to the INSIDE diameter of the pad cup. The synthetics and cork have defined edges and just get away with this, but leather does not, so on many clarinets the diameter of the pad is not quite enough to be reliable, especially if the pads do not line up perfectly with the tone holes. By contrast, quality bladder pads are stepped, and are very nearly the diameter of the OUTSIDE of the pad cups.
Even with a well defined edge to the pad, if the tone hole seals close to the edge of a pad in only one locality, there is the greatly increased possibility possibility of unreliable sealing. Just as with a bed mattress, there is less support near the edge unless special support is provided at the edge.
In response to jbutler, I am quite happy to do a 6 yearly tweak of mechanics without changing pads if they don't need changing.
To Dan: many factors affect pad life. Some suggestions are:
Life of pads depends on many things, to mention just a few:
- How often the instrument is played.
- Whether the pads themselves go through a regular dry-wet-dry-wet... cycle.
- How sharp or rough the tone hole edges are.
- The nature of the timber probably has an effect. Mpingo sure blunts tools quickly!
- What contaminants from the air collect in the surface of the timber.
- The material of the pad.
- Single or double bladder, and the thickness/quality of each layer.
- The hardness of the felt?
- Whether any dies or other timber treatment damage the pad membrane or make it brittle.
- How much moisture condenses inside the clarinet (depends on outside air temperature) and whether it runs to pads.
- How waterproof the pads are.
- How much actual saliva reaches the pads.
- How destructive this saliva is. The compounds, bacteria and enzymes differ from person to person. Calcium deposits make a hard surface on pads, causing leaks.
- Whether the player blows in other contaminants such as food or shedded mouth lining.
- How hard the keys are pressed, which is largely determined by...
- The state of adjustment (pad sealing etc) and ......
- How tense the player is.
- The state of the pivots, that may allow pads to slide across tone holes.
- Abrasive action of dragging paper, bank notes, etc across pads
- Abrasive action as the user rubs a cleaning cloth over the edges of pads.
- Contaminating fluff build-up from swab or pad saver
- The extent to which a swab or pad saver actually wipes the 'water' into the tone holes, to be held around the pad's sealing ring by capillary action.
- Extent to which hard calcium deposits are left by saliva on the pads.
- The strength of springs.
- Whether the user or a technician burns the edges of pads in a flame, attempting to adjust the sealing, or damages a membrane with a hot pad slick.
- What destructive powders or liquids the ill-advised player might apply to the pads.
- etc.
Pads last a very long time on the technician's shelf!
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