 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Cindy
Date: 2003-04-01 04:22
I have set a goal to save up and purchase and Eb clarinet. I need to do some research first obviously. What is the best model Eb out there? Also, what would the price be? I just went through the entire R-13 Bb and A experience, and have a match set of those, so would an R-13 Eb be the best? I am open to opinions and cold hard facts, whichever you feel like giving ![[cool]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/cool.gif) Thank you ever so much!
So many instruments to play........so little time to play them!
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2003-04-01 05:20
Don't discount Amati - they seem to be getting good crits recently - see Graham's website - he's a sponsor on this BB. They do an Eefer.
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-04-01 05:33
I like the LeBlanc Concerto in Eb.....
I havent tried the R13 so I cant tell you how they compare, I have just tried a Yamaha and a Selmer comparable to the Concerto and I find it the best, although this is probably limited to these particular instruments.....
Bradley
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2003-04-01 06:06
I have a Patricola that plays pretty well. I'm getting decent intonation from it and the action is like melted butter. Also it has the articulated G#/C# mechanism and alternate (left hand) Eb/Ab key. Don't buy an eefer without at least trying a Patricola.
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-04-01 07:12
Yeah- I've heard good things about the Patricolas, and they are really reasonable in price ( check WWBW). I cant really tell you from personal experience though
Bradley
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Author: Aussie Nick
Date: 2003-04-01 07:18
I've had nothing but trouble with my Patricola and wouldn't recommend them, but each to their own. I've had a couple of R13's selected out in the states for me, and they are on their way to Australia now so I'll get to choose. THe Buffet Prestige are also nice if you have the money. Haven't tried LeBlanc or Selmer, have tried a Yamaha though and it was pretty decent.
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Author: cyso_clarinetist
Date: 2003-04-01 16:04
Okay.. Here's the run down and it isn't very nice...
last time we talked I don't really recall you saying anything about needing it in orchestra or whatelse. Quite honestly you don't use it very much and also considering that you also just a sophomore in High School I would wait another two years or so if I were you. If you youth orchestra or school is asking you to play E-flat it's their responsibility to supply you with an instrument. (i have been through that myself so I would know).
First if I could give you any solid advice it would to be to stick with buffet since that's what you use for your Bb and A. Brand Crossing tends to be a huge hassel when it comes to Bb-A-Eb... bass is a little more flexible. What has been a long standing choice of most professional Eb players is the Buffet RC Prestige which averages just over three thosand dollars. Recently buffet has made some changes to their R-13's and they are playing very well. Personally I am partial to the R-13 Eb clarinet but what do I know .
Patricola Eb - I agree with Nick. If they go untweaked they are horribly out of tune.
Leblanc concerto Eb - They are good instruments, nearly impossible to locate one and there aren't many to select from. The opus and concerto are EXACTLY the same so it would be crazy to spend a thosand more for no improvements.
Amati clarinet... Need I say more?
Good luck.. Email me if you want or IM like you usually do
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Author: Eileen
Date: 2003-04-01 16:53
I played Eb in high school, a school instrument. When I showed up for college band and told the director that I had played Eb for the past 3 years, he bought a new school instrument for me to play. I think in general that the school usually supplies the instruments for the "Odd Clarinets" section. Otherwise, it's quite a personal investment for an instrument which has limited use outside of concert band/wind ensemble.
If you do buy your own, or assist your band director in picking one out, I'd let intonation determine your choice. In my 7 years of exclusive Eb playing, intonation was the biggest challenge. Because the notes sound so much more shrill than the Bb, it's hard to blend in. There's a reason the little thing is called the beast. Everything else can be worked around but an Eb with bad intonation will torture you mercilessly.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2003-04-01 17:13
"Brand Crossing tends to be a huge hassel when it comes to Bb-A-Eb"
Since the Eb is a bit of a different animal with its own problems, I don't think this is a major issue. Bb to A, yes.
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-04-01 17:43
I heard the Patricola Bbs were horribly out of tune most of the time, but I had heard different about the Ebs. Maybe the people that told me had them adjusted or were just lucky ( or deaf hehe). I would definetly watch out for them if all of you agree on this.
CYSO- The Concerto and Opus are probably going to be even more rare since Leblanc has brought out the Concerto II and Opus II lines to take the reg. models' places.....
If anyone is interested, there is a Concerto in Eb on Ebay, I think it is somewhere in England, and it was used very little ( personally I thought it was new until I read they used it for a month or two), so I can track down that link and email it to you if you would like. Just send me an email request.
Bradley
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Author: bob49t
Date: 2003-04-01 18:07
For cyso,
Forgive me but I'm not exactly sure what you mean by your statement "Amati clarinet - need I say more ?" but I suspect it's derisory.
1) It might be of interest to you to access the threads on Amati by BB pros GBK and John Mc Auley. Add to that the assessment by "the Doctor".
2) Not really sure if the "solid advice" given to Cindy is very solid. I would think most pros and advanced amateurs would purchase an Eefer for the best intonation, "playability" and value, rather than blindly sticking to a brand. I'm sure the Eefer can be a nasty little thing and is a breed apart (as is a bass).
3) I may be in a position to report on an Amati Eb trial quite soon.
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Author: Robert Small
Date: 2003-04-01 18:46
I just checked my Patricola eefer against a tuner and every note was practically dead-on until I get up into the altissimo register, at which point it tends to play flat unless I lip the notes up. But I attribute this more to my chops (I'm a bari sax player) than to the horn. I have heard that the Patricola Bb horns can be a little dicey as to intonation and consistancy of tone quality throughout the range but I'd say that about 90% of what I've heard regarding the eefers has been positive. I'm very happy with mine.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-04-01 19:20
cyso said: ''...Amati clarinet... Need I say more?..."
As one who owns an Amati (along with 11 R-13's), and has written extensively about it, I would very much like to read the detailed report of your playtesting with the Amati line of clarinets.
An opinion based strictly on hearsay is worthless...GBK
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2003-04-01 19:54
i also have a question about Eb clarinets.
just last night i told my choir teacher that i would like to play Eb clarinet next semester for choir... she said i could use hers - at rehearsal.
shouldnt i have one to practice on too? ive never played one before. or do i just practice on my Bb and apply it to the Eb at choir?
how much can i expect to pay for a used one? and should i get wood or plastic?
i saw one on ebay called Laval .. ive never heard of this brand - dont know if the big 4 apply to Eb's too...?
JL
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-04-01 20:26
Well- you should definetly get one, because coming straight from Bb my fingers are awfully cramped on it. You need an Eb because the fingerings for notes in Concert pitch are different, so the music would be different. It also is harder to get high notes ( obviously) .
I think to start you can go with a Yamaha plastic one or something, or a Vito plastic would probably be better to me. If you can spring for a wooden one, obviously this would be better......
Bradley
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Author: Eileen
Date: 2003-04-01 21:52
Your part will already be transposed for an Eb instrument. If you're practicing at home on Bb by yourself, that won't matter. As far as adjusting to the smaller scale, that depends. Are you a female with small hands? I have short, slender fingers which worked very well on the Eb. Lots of men with bigger hands have a hard time coping with the smaller space. While obviously it would be nicer to be able to take it home to practice, you could probably cope by practicing on the Bb. The altissimo on the Eb is very difficult, however, and might require more practice.
Just because the beast is sooo hard to tame, I'd be reluctant to buy an off-brand. You'd be better off playing your teacher's presumably good one on loan than wasting your money on an ebay special with terrible intonation. As for wood vs. plastic, what do you plan to do with it? Marching band, outdoor stuff, clarinet choir focused on pop/show tunes? Get the plastic. Play it just for a year or two in a side group? Plastic might do it. Serious classical? Wood.
As far as prices, the small size does not mean small price. Expect to pay a considerable amount more for an Eb. For example, I think a Buffet E11 Bb is in the $600 range whereas the E11 Eb is more like $900. Amati is probably somewhat lower for a wood.
The eefer is not to everyone's liking. You might want to play your teacher's horn until you decide whether to invest the cash. And also consider whether the money might be better devoted to saving up for a better Bb. I thought about purchasing an Eb but decided that I really would not use it that often. I've put the money in the R13 Bb fund instead.
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Author: R13A
Date: 2003-04-01 23:08
CIndy.....
The best eefer for you is the one you like the best. Being a neophyte, it would behove you to have an eefer 'player' try some out for you.
Thery are expensive, more than a Bb/A. Some the the best eefers made were those by Selmer in the late 50's/early 60's.
I had 4 eefers but now only 3 as I recently gave one away as a gift. The 3 are different brands and play/sound/feel differently. The mp you choose is critical, perhaps all things being smaller, narrower, shorter.
If you can find a used one, priced right, and even add an o/h, you would probably still be ahead of buying a new one. Call around to some of those retailers in this site's Retail section and inquire. Wherever you may find a source, be sure to stipulate a return policy, even on the mp's you may try.
Oh geez, let me em you direct, I just remembered and may know where one is available for sale
regards
dennis
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Author: Carmen
Date: 2003-04-02 05:05
While reading these posts, I wonder how refined are your skills with the Eflat Clarinet. Do you play it often? I do not want to sound negative, but if you go and try some instruments without very much experience then you may be making a mistake. Perhaps your playing may change or improve after having the oppurtunity to spend more time with your Eflat, and therefore that instrument may not be the right brand/model/individual suited for your needs. So I reccomend finding any possibility to work on your Eflat Clarinet skills for a while and then perhaps the search may be made with better knowledge in mind.
Then again, your playing could very well possibly adjust to the instrument, and I think that this is the more likely of the two to happen, and your Eflat Clarinet playing will be molded on how you work with the new isntrument.
All in all I wish you good luck. The Eflat Clarinet is indeed a difficult instrument to play well, but I am sure with practice youll enjoy it very much. Just get to know what ever instrument you choose and keep its qualities in mind.
Carmen
***...so do all who seen such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you can do is decide what to do with the time that is given to you.***
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2003-04-02 11:17
thanks for the advice
yes - i am a female and have small hands ...
i plan to use the Eb in choir only - unless the wind symphony plays any pieces where an Eb would fit in nicely.
i also plan to be in the choir for many many years....i intend to make it a life-long hobby. so i would be using it for more than a couple years.
Eileen, i already updated my Bb a couple yrs ago to a selmer signature.
there is another Eb clarinet im interested in on ebay .. it sounds good, but im just not sure - if anyone is willing to check out the ad for me, please email me at dogmah2@yahoo.com (i dont think we're allowed to put the listings in the posts)
thank you, Janlynn
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Author: HAT
Date: 2003-04-02 13:23
Don't overestimate how hard it is to play the eflat clarinet well.
Just because so many people play the eflat clarinet horrendously doesn't mean it's terribly hard, only that a lot of bad players play it. Some of them play it without a concept of playing that matches what the instrument is generally capable of.
In my experience, good musicians who play the b flat clarinet exceptionally well can pick up the eflat clarinet rather quickly.
There is absolutely no shortage of superb professional eflat clarinet players in the world.
My advice is to learn the clarinet. Boy am I becoming an old fogey.
But if someone gives you an eflat clarinet, take advantage of that. But to drop $2,500? Your call, of course. What I am saying is if you want to be good at it, you don't have to worry about 'waiting too long.'
In terms of equipment, you will never find an eflat clarinet that tunes as simply as a great bflat clarinet. But that is partly the nature of the parts the instrument plays. And remember, 'putting the needle in the center' does not equal 'playing in tune.' But it's a good place to start from.
The key words in eflat clarinet playing, as I see it are listening, control, flexibility, intellect, experience and restraint.
Listen to my words or leave them, but I have played a lot of eflat clarinet (not nearly as much as Larry Liberson, John Moses or Greg Smith, but quite a bit).
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-04-02 18:27
Good post, HAT.
I would never select an Eb Clarinet based on brand alone, even with a selection of many samples.
Intonation of Eb Clarinets can be maddening. But I do believe playing the Eb really helped my use of the lips to advantage in playing jazz, as lipping 'em up or down on an eefer can be a constant fight, unless you are fortunate enough to have one that is super sweet.
The eefer with the best intonation I ever played was a no-name metal piece that originally had been used in some US Military band, then sold as surplus (for almost nothing) because it was broken in half. The tech who repaired it turned out a fine job, and it played wonderfully. Wish I had that thing now. I do not care if an eefer is made of wood, metal, plastic, or Silly Putty: if it has good intonation, all else will fall in place for a skilled player.
I used to carry an eefer on dance gigs. Anyone who thinks a Clarinet can't cut through the rest of the instruments never heard an eefer doin' it. Over many years, never was there a single complaint about the high pitch. Of course, use it appropriately.
Regards,
John
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-04-02 18:47
Just checked eay to refresh my memory on the "Laval" Eb. Who knows, it just might be an okay thing to play, especially if you are thoroughlu unaccustomed to using the L4 F key, which it does not bother to include. Wonder what other shortcuts are not featured?
My stock includes a few Bb Clarinets bought through eBay, but I would not buy an EB for playing purposes without testing it first unless it came with an absolute money-back guarantee. (Or maybe if I happened to be extremely short of cash....)
By the way, I was just kidding about the Silly Putty.
Regards,
John
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Author: clarinetmama
Date: 2003-04-02 20:23
I tried Patricola and was not at all impressed. I have a Buffet Eb which I rarely get to play and sort of regret spending the money on it. That said, unless you plan to play it a lot don't bother buying one. If and when you go to college they may have one sitting on a shelf that is dying for someone to play it. Save your money until you know for sure. The Eb often playes the same parts as the piccolo, so you will have a ton of intonation issues. Many band directors consider the Eb a dinosaur. There are some fun parts for them, but from my experience, few and far between.
Jean
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-04-02 20:26
Egad! I hadn't intended to swamp this thread, but one other thing went unwritten...
cyso_clarinetist wrote:
"Amati clarinet... Need I say more?"
As a matter of fact, yes. You write as if in possession of extensive experiential knowledge regarding other Eb Clarinets. Hence, I can hardly wait to read of any vast (or even semi-vast) experiences you have had with Eb Clarinets of the Amati marque.
Thanks in advance,
John
who now has written quite enough
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