 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: kennychw
Date: 2003-03-29 04:06
Wondering if this is a saxophone or clarinet. Note the saxophone pinky keys for the right hand
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2519409698&category=10182
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2003-03-29 15:30
Looks like a weird clarinet to me.
Saxaphones tend to flair sooner because they are conical in design.
In the picture of this thing laying on its side, it looks cylidrical (like a clarinet) until you get down to the bell area.
John
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-03-29 16:14
Looks like one to me. Made-up in similar fashion to a bass cl, the extreme length needed to get down to [octave-lower] E or Eb, [or D/C ??]. I have a good plastic Linton bass with similar logos, ser # 23xxx [made by Malerne ? , Elk/Paris], so figure their # [Linton's series?] 33xxx is prob 50-60's. Likely not a bad buy [suggest inspection!] at 3 G's +. BID, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-03-29 16:24
Looks like a sax if you just consider the RH keys and pinky keys (all the LH keys are hard to see). The low Eb to C rollers are there and the RH Bb and the alternate C (for the side of the RH). But there looks like some semblance of LH keys much like the throat A and G#. I think the conical bore with a nicely flaired bell pretty much says this is a sax.
HRL
PS I just downloaded the picture and really enlarged it. You can begin to see that there are no sliver keys at all and the LH seems to have a pearl G# key.
Post Edited (2003-03-29 17:32)
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-03-29 21:14
I will throw in a wild theory. The bore and bell diameter would make this a very small bored bass sax. The very long and fat gooseneck with spit key is a lot longer than any bass sax I have seen. It is only an assumption that the mouthpiece is the one intended or original. At some stage Orsi and others have manufactured and instrument called a Rothphone. It is essentially a saxophone of very narrow bore that is played with a double reed. The gooseneck on this example looks like it takes a bass sax mouthpiece. It is extremely out of proportion to the body and maybe an adaption/replacement to take a single reed mouthpiece rather than a double reed. Orsi make or will make all sorts of instruments such as Sarrusophones which again are a double reed contraption somewhere between a bassoon and a saxophone. Orsi/LA Sax bass saxes are bigger in bore than this example and have a proportionate gooseneck. I am willing to bet that that neck is not the original fitted to the instrument.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-03-29 23:20
Looking in my clar books, Rendall, with pics of several contrabass cls, shows a structure very much like this one, spoken of as "PEDAL", which may be a "carryover" from organ terminology as low bass IMHO. R's inst. is from 1860, but has the upper loops giving it its length, but not much larger for playing-ease than a [regular] bass cl. We need expert opinion, such as by Al Rice!! , dont we? Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-03-30 16:13
It looks out of proportion (as others have mentioned) to be a bass sax, so throw in one more vote for "weird clarinet."
Especially notice how skinny the "clarinet" is from a side view (the pic of it in the case) compared to a side view of a bass sax. http://www.selmer.com/images/56.jpg
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Author: jim lande
Date: 2003-03-31 04:15
Go search Grant Green's contrabass digest pages http://www.contrabass.com/
for discussion on the Linton contra clarinets. They were student quality instruments made, I think, in the 1950s or so.
The key thing to look at is how the part of the body with the keys does not flare out much. The key layout is irrelevant.
I tell people my loop style Leblanc contra clarinet is a diet tuba. It doesn't look any more like a clarinet than does the Linton.
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Author: Don Poulsen
Date: 2003-03-31 12:38
There is only one factor here that matters: Is it conical or cylindrical? If the former, it's a sax. If the latter, it's a clarinet. Key type of placement is irrelevant.
It is fairly clear that the bore diameter is pretty constant, up to the point where it flares out for the bell. That makes it a member of the clarinet family.
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Author: Heidi
Date: 2003-03-31 15:26
I'd have to agree with Susie too....this is pretty compelling evidence. Especially considering the tubax does have a smaller bore size than the bari or bass saxophone, as was the earlier problem. Good going! 
Heidi
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-03-31 16:01
The "combo" of the comments/guesses by Jim. Hank, Don P and me seem [IMHO] to place the horn in the clarinet family, please note the mp SOCKET size vs a corked sax neck, AND the seller's reference to LOW E, not a B or Bb as on a sax. Curt Sachs' book [1940] shows on pg 413, fig 133, a "double bass clarinet" [with a bit of discussion following] which appears to me to be the same as Rendall's Pedal cl. The longer, but not greatly larger diameter bell could be lower-range extension. The tubax is very interesting, and may be one of several combination cylindrical/conical tubular horns made in the 1800's, described in literature as experiments . Please someone bid on [or request a trial of] this cl/hybrid?. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-03-31 16:10
I'm voting Eb contrabass clarinet. As John said, the side view shows a non-expanding body, and the first half of the bell doesn't expand, either. The key is the mouthpiece, which has a clarinet-style cork rather than a sax-style design. Also, although the inital view isn't entirely clear, it appears to have Ab and A throat keys rather than saxophone palm keys. The right hand layout has sax-style keys, but it could easily have German fingering, or just eliminate the duplicate keys on a comparatively inexpensive student-level instrument.
There was another Orsi, with the same giant mouthpiece, that was discussed a year or so ago.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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