 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Brett
Date: 2003-03-25 23:18
Hi everyone,
I'm going to air this issue here to see what kind of feedback or what suggestions I can get back. I recently purchased a Buffet Festival Greenline clarinet and I've been playing it for about 3 months. About 2 or so weeks ago, I put it together and began to play and noticed that there were some tonal differences that hadn't been present for the first 3 months. The low register sounds the same as when it was bought, but once I hit the break and above, I notice a resistance. I feel like I'm having to force to get a good tone where I was not forcing before. It also seems more difficult to staccato toungue because of this and I feel like/am running the risk of squeaking almost constantly in notes over B (break). There are some notes where it struggles to speak immediately, which was never an issue before. With this instrument over 2 weeks ago, I was able to sound a note (no matter which one and which register) at a whisper and now I find it difficult to have these notes over the break speak clearly and well at all. It's becoming very discouraging as my clarinet professor has tested the instrument for leaks (seal test) and has visually inspected pads to make sure they are seated correctly, to no avail. Before I take the clarinet back to where it was purchased (Chuck Levin's) for them to look over, I want to see if there is possibly some element that I am missing. To my knowledge, I haven't consciously changed anything in my playing style i.e. embouchure, hand/wrist position, etc. Any help that anyone can give would be appreciated.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: PJ
Date: 2003-03-26 00:00
Is it possible that something could be wrong with your mouthpiece? I've had that happen before. When your professor looked at it, did he/she play it and get the same results? Enquiring minds want to know!
It was my impression that the Greenlines didn't change as much as a normal wooden model. Could be wrong though...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brett
Date: 2003-03-26 00:49
hhhmmm... Mouthpiece. Guess I hadn't thought of that. When my professor played on it, he said he didn't notice much of a difference, but said that it could be because he's not used to playing on the horn. Maybe I'll try another mouthpiece to see if it makes a difference. I'd still appreciate any advice or feedback people have...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: PJ
Date: 2003-03-26 01:02
I don't have much experience with the Greenlines, so my advice is limited on the horn. However, I would like to know what results you get when you switch mouthpieces. Keep us all posted!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Fred
Date: 2003-03-26 01:21
Also make sure there isn't a bit of lint (or ???) in the register tube. The register key is easy to remove - then use a pipe cleaner to make sure it's clear. You'd be surprised how much difference just a little obstruction can make.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-03-26 04:40
Or binding of the pivot (or spring) of the the throat A key (or various other keys). This may cause intermittent leaks, that show up only soon after pressing this a key.
Slight binding of pivots on new, pro, French instruments is very common in my experience!
The operation of any throat A key spring is precarious at best. The slightest thing - rust, non-lubrication, displaced 'plate' that it presses on, indentation in the timber where it presses, etc can upset its operation.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brett
Date: 2003-03-26 05:25
Gordon,
When you say binding, what exactly do you mean by that? I understand that overtightening of the A screw causes large sections of the instrument to cease playing, but I'm positive that's not what you're referring to. In any case, it was the first thing I checked and it was well adjusted. (I had previously inquired on this board about THAT problem a little while back)
As for the problems occuring after the key has just been pressed sounds consistent with what I'm experiencing. It also makes sense since both my professor and I are unable to track down a leak on the instrument by conventional methods. Does this occur on other keys as well, or primarily just with the throat A key? Would binding of the A pivot cause larger sections of the instrument to be effected or just the notes around that A?
I have somewhat of a better idea of where to start, although if in anyone's opinion I'm still missing something, feel free to keep on posting; This is basically what I've got to go on :-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2003-03-26 10:43
I'd check the adjusting screw on the A/G# mechanism.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-03-26 10:56
Binding refers to unacceptable, excessive friction.
In a pivot it can be caused by:
- A hinge (pivot) tube which the manufacture has never fitted correctly to the shaft that goes through it - common even with top makes.
- Grit, rust or residues from old glue between the tube and the shaft.
- Pivot tube is too long so that it jams between the supporting posts.
- A post is loose and has been rotated by the spring mounted in it.
- A bent tube or shaft.
- A pivot shaft where the axis of the thread at one end is at a slight angle to the axis of the rest of the shaft. Result - jamming only when the rod is tightened.
- A burr at the end of the pivot tube, either from wear or scruffy manufacture. (Similar result)
- for a pivot that involves point screws rather than a pivot tube, when the point screws screw up hard against the key.
- Bent point screw.
Excessive friction for a throat A key's spring can be caused by:
- The spring being a fraction of a millimetre too short.
- Th spring sliding (during operation) to a minute wall at the end of a groove it has worn in the timber.
- The timber here is lined with a minute piece of metal where the spring contacts. This can be mis-located, or installed on an 'uphill' slope for the spring to struggle against.
- The contact point of the spring needs lubrication but has none.
- The contact point of the spring is slightly rough, sharp, or rusty.
- The spring is bent incorrectly such that its EFFECTIVE length is too short.
Excessive friction can also be caused by a chunk of cork where the A/G# regulating screw touches the A key - a chunk that the screw has chewed a hole into.
Binding pivots can occur anywhere there is a pivot.
The throat A spring, because of its shortness, is the fussiest on the instrument.
The higher up the instrument that any leak is, the more notes it affects, especially those notes involving keys much further down the instrument.
So if there is a leak in the a key's pad it will barely affect A, but will dramatically affect notes that involve a lot more fingers.
There are far more parameters and possibilities involved with most aspects of clarinet servicing than most players ever realise. It is a rare amateur repairer who can get his own instrument even in mediocre order.
In summary, if even your teacher has a problem playing some notes, SEE A GOOD TECHNICIAN!! They know many times more about these things than players do. A good technician could find any problems in your instrument in a FRACTION of the time it took me to write this!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-03-26 11:07
Another cause of binding: The environment is colder so the polymer base material that the instrument is made from shrinks (a lot more than the metal parts), pulling posts clower together and jamming keys.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2003-03-26 14:16
It will not be possible to diagnose this without having the instrument in hand.
Your warrantee should still be good - take it back and have it gone over. Any good repair tech should be able to find the problem(s).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2003-03-26 14:40
Another "shot in the dark" guess--perhaps as a result of an increased practice schedule on your new instrument, your embouchure has gained strength and you have (unawarily) gravitated toward a heavier reed. (Lots of players rely on reeds that are too heavy to produce the quality of sound they strive for instead of playing with proper embouchure and breath control) A heavier reed (one with more heart and thicker tip) can cause the phenomonum you described--strong lower register but slight, added resistance in the upper. Notes may become uneven and articulation is more difficult. Just a thought..................(so think about it)
In any case, new instruments will change as they become conditioned to your areas climate. In any case, do not rely on your teachers inspection. Take your instrument to an experianced repairperson for expert analysis and adjustment. Its probably something very minor and, after some minuet "tweeks", your new clarinet will return to its "old self".
BTW--I really liked the Greenline that I auditioned at IMS a few years ago. Good luck with yours!!!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2003-03-26 15:03
You'll save yourself a lot of grief to go back to the dealer and have them look at the instrument. That's part of what you pay for when you purchase from them, so don't hesitate to do it. It is probably something very simple to fix and could be looked at in a few min. If they want to keep the instrument for a day or so, ask for a loaner. Please don't mess with the instrument too much before taking it back--you want to be careful not to void the warranty. A tech person is trained for such things and may have already looked at others with similar problems.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Forest Aten
Date: 2003-03-27 16:50
You say your teacher tested the clarinet for "leaks"....did they play the instrument and find the clarinet to exibit the same problems?
Check the A key adjustment screw.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brett
Date: 2003-03-28 12:43
Gordon
First, my professor played the horn. He said it was a bit more resistant than his horn, but that it was an even resistance all throughout the horn and not any more so in the areas where I've been experiencing it. He then did a seal test on the upper and lower joints and was able to get a seal on both. He was going to try another test (I forget the specifics of it) that involves putting a certain type of paper under the pad and then pulling it out and if there are leaks it would somehow detect it, but he ran out of time and said he'd do it at my next lesson, which will be on Tuesday. I'll keep everyone posted as to how that turns out.
Forest
As to the A key adjustment screw, that was the first thing I checked this time, as I had been having problems with it right after I bought the horn. It had a tendency to move, like it was settling. After adjusting it once, it seemed to be enough to keep it at the right level and it hasn't been a problem since. I checked the level again once this started and it was fine.
That's where I'm at now. I'll be taking it back to have it looked at by the people I bought it from. It's a bit difficult as I live about 2 hours from where I bought it and I'm currently going to college about 4 or 5 hours from where I bought it. I'll have to send it out to them, but I can't hand deliver it and telling them what's wrong with it may be more difficult because it'll take longer if I have to clarify myself on anything. Anyway, I can deal with those problems as they arise.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-03-28 13:36
Some people do a sucking test. This may not detect certain faults causing leaks as well as a blowing test. Try blocking the end and blowing into the other, one section at a time. With the upper section at any rate it should either be impossible, or really difficult to blow hard enough to make a key open and produce a hissing leak sound.
Did you ever check the register vent as suggested by Fred, 4th reply?
Even if you clean this with a pipe cleaner, lint can can move from the tube, to the end of the pipe cleaner, only to be re-deposited in the tube when the pipe cleaner is removed.
Remove the key, shine a light down the bore, and look down the regisgter vent to check that it is clear. (Easier in a dark room)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brett
Date: 2003-03-28 19:26
Gordon:
I haven't tried that yet because, as a number of people have said, it's best not to void the warranty by doing something to the instrument. It sounds like a good idea and as soon as I'm able to get it to Chuck Levin's, I'll ask them to check for that. I'll also try the blowing test. My professor only did the sucking test. Hopefully, that may yield something. Thanks to everyone for your comments. I'll be keeping you up to date with what goes on.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Karel
Date: 2003-03-29 02:13
I don't think removing the register key and replacing it is a detectable thing, nor should it constitute an activity which might void your warranty. I saw my teacher do it once, was worried while doing it myself for the first time, like falling off a log the second time.
For Gordon: I sincerely hope that your comment about stopping your "advice column" was a jest. For those of us who live some distance from professional repair help your posts are absolutely invaluable. Like Bob I read them whatever the topic. Please don't stop.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-03-30 14:07
Ah Karel! Thanks for your sentiments. This an issue of how much time to spend producing income, how much to devote to my many current and yet to evolve interests, and how much is left to matyr to the world of cyberspace. I've pretty well given a personal overdose on instrument servicing issues on 4 forums. Time for somebody else maybe. But there is the problem of the addiction element!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
