 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: wjk
Date: 2003-03-23 02:46
I occassionally notice a tight fit between clarinet joint parts, and despite liberal application of the Doctor's excellent cork grease, it is hard to separate the parts. I don't want to bend any rods or keys, so I'm careful where I grip the joints during disassembly. Any advice?
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-03-23 02:54
This can be a result of either the wood expanding, or the cork being too big. If it happens all the time, even when the clarinet has been "resting" for hours maybe a day or two, then it is probably your cork. Get someone( a qualified technician) to file it down or something , so they fit together better. If it happens after playing for a while and you cant get them apart, or they dont fir together so well- it might be a result of the wood changing sizes because of temp. changes, like when your breathe warms it up etc. This is not so easily fixed, so you should again ask a qualified technician what would be the best solution for your particular clarinet's problem.....
Hope I am of help...
Bradley
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Author: Karel
Date: 2003-03-23 04:57
wjk, it is possible to distinguish between a tight cork and a tight joint. When the joint itself binds, it is quite a "hard" sensation in the binding, whereas the cork gives more of a giving sensation. When I bought my
R-13, new, it was locking up on me, and I had little doubt that it was wood on wood although I was still quite a novice. You should not try to adjust the wood in the joints themselves, that is quite a skilled procedure. Sanding down the cork is relatively easy.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-03-23 08:31
Jamming of the tenon timber is almost standard for new Buffets and French Selmers.
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2003-03-23 13:41
I used to have this problem. My analysis of the situation was that the end grain of the tenons was absorbing moisture, causing the tenons to swell. My home remedy has been to apply cork grease to the ends of the tenons (when they are dry and not binding) to seal them from absorbing excess moisture.
Others more knowledgable than I am, may respond with reasons why this shouldn't be done, but thus far I see no obvious ill effects, and the tenons have stopped binding.
John
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-03-23 22:09
I think the real reason is that the fit of the joints was not made for the particular climate (humidity) that the clarinet will be living in.
The moisture content of the timber (hence the tenon diameter) will eventually depend on the treatment/impregnation of the timber during manufacture, any sealing of the surface, the humidity of the environment, and the degree/frequency of the bore being subject to condensation.
I agree that cork grease on the ends of the tenons may have a small effect if the ends are not already effective sealed. It is unlikely that this accounts for the jamming at the other end of the tenon.
I have eased the fit of the timber on dozens of new clarinets, and after this treatment they no longer have a problem of jamming - in the environment in which they are used.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-03-23 22:11
(I forgot to mention post-manufacture timber treatment as a factor, for example the buffering of the moisture content claimed for "Bore Doctor" bore oil)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-03-25 00:40
Tenon caps make the diameter of the end of the tenon stable. There can still be problems at the other end of the tenon unlesss a ring is installed there too.
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Author: happyamateur
Date: 2003-03-25 01:36
When I bought my R13 it was very difficult to assemble the top and bottom joints and almost impossible to get them apart. I, too, was worried about bending keys or even cracking a tenon. I found that a slathering of Doc's synthgrease each time I played really helped, but what helped even more was the purchase of one of those thin rubbery mats that they sell to keep throw rugs from slipping. I cut two squares, one for each hand, and found that it made a world of difference in the grip and torque required to separate the pieces. It allowed me to keep my hand free of the keys with less worry about bending.
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Author: Joel Clifton
Date: 2003-03-25 01:55
When I got my new R-13 a few weeks ago, I noticed that the middle joint was very tight, so tight that I was afraid to twist it to get the final 1/4th of an inch for fear of bending a key or something. I had to press it together by putting the bell on my leg and pushing down on the barrel. It would slam together every time, and I was afraid it would cause damage. At first I thought it was the cork, so I sanded it down. It didn't help. Then I realized that the resistance felt like wood-on-wood, because it was not a smooth motion when I got it to twist, it was a jerking, snapping motion. Maybe I shouldn't have, but I very carefully shaved some wood off of the joint with a tiny wood scraping tool, and now I have no problems with it.
That wasn't the first time I fiddled with my R-13. I'm kind of a do-it-yourself kind of guy. After I purchased my clarinet, I noticed that the C#/G# key was very badly in the way when I tried to hit the C/G tone hole. Looking at it more closely, the key was more than twice as far from the left hand F/C key than it was on my Vito. So I took the key off, grabbed one end with some rubber-tipped pliers, bent it a bit by hand, and put it back on. It works absolutely perfectly now, and there is a 2mm gap between the two keys instead of the previous 5-6mm or so.
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-03-25 04:23
Well- as long as you dont damage it, I think that is good for you......
Gordon- I have found that when both the male and female tenon joints are capped, although it eliminates the friction between the joints, it affects the sound in a negative way, muffling it. Is it just me hearing what I want to hear , or have you or anyone else found or can explain this.
Bradley
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2003-03-25 12:13
Bradley:
Can you explain "female tenon joints are capped"? If you are talking about the rings all wood clarinets have them. But I've never seen a capped female joint. Correct me if I'm wrong or explain to me what you are describing.
Chances are the tone truly was different but I highly doubt it was because of the tenon caps. How did you determine that the caps were the cause of the tonal difference? Was it the same clarinet with caps added after the fact? The same model but different clarinet?
MOO,
Matt
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-03-25 12:20
Well- the Selmer Artys has female tenons capped. Not only the rings, but where the male joint would usually go into to put together the clarinet has metal, so basically no wood takes part in the tenon joint itself. I played a Selmer that was a bit older and it was said to have the same acoustical design , but it didnt have the female tenon caps. I found the clarinet that did have them slightly muffled in most areas and I was wondering if that could in any way be the cause.
Bradley
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-03-25 12:30
Matt, it is reasonably common on top instruments for the lining of the centre tenon socket to be metal, especially for articulated G# models, where the tenon socket is inherently weaker. Perhaps more comomon on oboes.
Bradley, in answer to your question, personally I would put this in the category of mind deception, similar to claiming that the nature of the plating on the keys (or dare I sway it, the rotation of the bell) affects the tone.
*Gordon ducks for cover*
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Author: Matt Locker
Date: 2003-03-25 14:46
Thank you both for enlightening me to that. I've never seen a female cap before.
MOO,
Matt
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-03-25 23:09
I agree , "female tenon" just doesn't sound right to me, but then, what do I know. Reminds me of using the term "clockwise" regarding a digital watch.
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Author: bls
Date: 2003-03-26 11:36
I have extremely tight joints and have the same concern that some have expressed, namely, possible damage to keys when disassembling. I have used the Dr.'s grease before every play but my impression is that it is being squeegied off as I assemble. If the instrument remains assembled for any length of time, it is even harder to separate. My question is whether sanding with some very fine guage sandpaper would work. If so, what guage? Should I have the tech do it (the one who installed the corpulant cork) or can I safely do it myself?
bls
bls
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-03-26 22:59
The problem is almost certainly with the timber jamming, not the cork.
a good technicain can deal with this. Most do-it -yourselfers will do significant damage. You don't want LOOSE-fitting timber.
The acceptible difference in diameter between the tenon and the socket timber is up to about 0.15 mm (0.006")
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-03-26 23:25
Thanks Gordon- I really had not gotten as clear as answer from anyone before......
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