 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-03-16 04:18
I was just wondering people's thoughts on what I'm about to say. I think that us clarinetists spend a little too much time worrying about adjusting a reed to be "perfect". I don't really hear any other insturments talk about this, except for double reeds where they cost in excess of ten dollars each to begin with. Why is it that we are so anal with this adjusting and clipping and breaking in whereas others (ie - saxes, and flutes ;-) ) seem to just pick a good reed out of the box and play on that.
I myself haven't gotten into the adjusting of a reed. Yes, I attempt to be careful to break them in, and yes I do pick few favorite or "performance" reeds, but I don't really feel the urge or need to adjust these performance reeds anymore. Is it just cause our reeds are so tiny that they are usually offbalance and are bad?
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Karel
Date: 2003-03-16 04:38
I don't know about saxes, but my daughter, who plays a flute, does not know a reed from a doorstop. I suspect most reed users get fussy about them, partly to excuse playing quality by blaming the little bit of cane? Seriously though, have you not noticed that a terrible sounding reed can be made sweet by showing it some sandpaper?
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Author: William
Date: 2003-03-16 16:12
"Play the reed--don't let the reed play you!!" William Stubbins, leagendary clarinet teacher (Ann Arbor, Michigan) and author of "The Art of Clarinetistry."
However, most "good" clarinet players prefer to play "talented" reeds that they either find by going through a zillion boxes, or by "tweeking" the almost perfect ones they do find for optimum performance.
Then, there is the story of Charles Niedich, who just before taking the stage to play a magor clarinet work with a symphony orchestra, cracked open a box of new reeds, popped the first reed into his mouth and then onto his mpc, and walked out to play. (True of not, ????)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-03-16 16:40
on a slight offshoot of this topic, is it possible to spot a reed that has more potential just by looking at it? I notice that on most of the reeds I play, where the reed begins to file down to the tip, there is usually a semi-circular shape of where the wood has begun to file. I notice other reeds out of the box that have a messed up file (more of a sraight line or not quite as semi-circular). Is that a good indication of whether a reed might or might not have potential or should you attempt to break those in as well and give them their fair shot?
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Dee
Date: 2003-03-16 19:10
Nope, no way to tell at all. I've had reeds that met all the so-called visual criteria that were so-so and reeds that looked terrible but played great.
Some reeds are cut straight across at the base by design and others are semicircular by design. Of course I've seen plenty that were rather odd looking for the semicircular cut.
Actually I seldom bother to adjust reeds anymore. I find that just moving it around on the mouthpiece a hair (up or down or a little to one side) makes enough difference to make most reeds pretty good players.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2003-03-16 23:18
When you get a reed that does play "perfect" you then want all reeds to play that way.
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2003-03-17 07:16
Alexi --
I have concluded that when it comes to reeds, there are two distinct types of clarinet (or sax) players.
The first type of player (which includes the great majority) would rather take a bad beating than mess around with reeds. These folks basically just play on the reeds which work for them and discard the rest. As their good reeds wear out, they buy another box and repeat the process. Most players of this type do just fine with this method and cannot understand why anyone would do things any other way. They look upon those of us who adjust our reeds as oddballs who waste precious time on woodcarving which should be spent playing the clarinet.
The second type of player adjusts most or all reeds. (A few make reeds from blanks). Some of us begin the process as a reed comes out of the box, before we have blown a single note on it. Many claim to improve their reeds by adjusting them. Others claim that a properly adjusted reed will remain at or near its peak far longer than an untreated reed. Some (including myself) claim both.
To players in this group, the above Charles Neidich anecdote is rather frightening because for us, playing a solo on a brand new reed would be something like jumping off a cliff without a parachute. (That Neidich can apparently pull off this reed trick we attribute to his superhuman skills).
Rather than claim that one approach is better than the other, I tell young players to try to figure out which type they are, and proceed accordingly.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2003-03-17 12:20
I also believe that once you have played on a well adjusted, balanced and responsive reed it changes your whole concept of what a reed can be. It often does not take that much work, especially once you have learned a few tricks and know what works for you and on your set up. Some people I know choose not to work on reeds because they don't know how. They would rather buy new mouthpieces to make all of those reeds work! ;-)
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Author: msloss
Date: 2003-03-17 14:26
There are plenty of "decent" reeds in a box that can be salvaged with a knife or rush. I tend not to futz with the magic reeds too much, because it is easy to go too far and ruin them. However, to cut on a reed that would otherwise go in the round file is worthwhile to increase the yield per box. Once in a while, a little adjusting makes an otherwise mediocre reed snap to life and become the best in the box.
Think of the reeds as blanks that need to be adjusted to your mpiece/lig and playing style. If it is already perfect, leave it. Otherwise, whadaya got to lose?
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-03-17 16:03
I can honestly say that if I did not adjust reeds I would probably never be happy with the way I play or the way the instrument responds. Part of the regular development of a player who is learning is investigating new ways of getting reeds to work better. In orchestra the tendency of new reeds I find is they (Vandoren) tend to be a little stuffy and lack the bite in the sound that helps the instrument project. With just a few minor adjustments I can yeild about 9 playable reeds out of a box of #4 V12 for my own playing needs. I also know that I have reeds more suited to chamber style playing and some born for orchestral sound...more importantly it is best to know when a reed is a true "dud".
Recently I had a dud which I spent alot of time trying to either play and adjust, and this was a unworkable unplayable piece of cane that I just decided need to be ran into the wall....afterwards of course I felt so much better. Alot of people would just keep trying long after I stopped thinking this reed could be improved!
Another thing I would like to add is most V12 cane is fairly green so you may want to wait before opening these boxes. I also backpile quite a bit of cane(some a far a 5 or 6 years) and I find I have less adjustment on the older cane than the newer stuff...
Never overplay the new cane. Break in about 15 minutes a day and on soft long tones. Even if the reed seems great, still take time and break it in and of course you may have a reed that lasts months!
David Dow
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2003-03-17 17:32
So far I have read who adjusts their reeds, who doesn't, and why. Can anyone explain the basic theory on how to do it? What problems are faced and what corrective action is taken and how? I just need one brave soul, to explain just how he or she approches (technique wise) a reed in need of adjustment.
Mark
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Author: Ed
Date: 2003-03-17 18:16
One of the best places to start may be on checking out some of the books on the subject. You can find some at:
http://www.vcisinc.com/reeds.htm
Initially it is important to be sure that the back of the reed is flat and that the reed is balanced from side to side, especially at the tip.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-03-17 18:43
Mark...I'll try to break down the "mystery" behind adjusting reeds.
As one who has been adjusting reeds since David Etheridge taught me how, more than 30 years ago, I feel it is an invaluable skill to have and one that lets you tailor the reed to your particular mouthpiece.
It is not difficult, if you remember to proceed very slowly in small increments. To this day I can still hear Dave Etheridge reminding me to take off "only dust" and then retest to see the difference.
The biggest mistake most beginners make in adjusting is taking off too much.
Take a few reeds which are past their prime and experiment to see how each small adjustment - rails, tip, vamp, etc... effects the sound and response with your mouthpiece. Only do one area at a time and the differences will be apparent to you.
Adjusting reeds is not some hocus-pocus black magic. Actually it is rather simple and logical. Certain brands have inherent characteristics which are fairly predictable (Vandoren reeds have the left rail thicker than the right), so as you get more comfortable in adjusting, these steps become fairly routine.
I am very partial to Gonzalez FOF for they are using quality aged cane which is quite consistant from reed to reed, and the fact that adjustments after break-in are minimal. I think at this point, recent Vandoren reeds are on the greener side, and until they get their newer cane fields up to speed, their present reed quality is quite spotty.
There are many good reed adjusting texts, but when it comes down to it, they all say the same thing, and use the same principles.
So, in conclusion, start with some sandpaper, a good knife and some old reeds, go slow and be patient. Each reed is a learning experience...GBK
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Author: Mark P. Jasuta
Date: 2003-03-17 19:45
GBK,
Thanks for the insight on reed adjustment. I agree with you, Gonzalez FOF are the way to go for now...
Mark
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2003-03-17 21:18
GBK wrote: "Vandoren reeds have the left rail thicker than the right"
I wanted to say that that is not true, and back it up with some measurements. I just measured a new box of V12s. 8 out of 10 had the right rail thicker than the left! The other two were almost equal.
So, GBK you are wrong, but not as wrong as I would have thought!
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-03-17 22:25
Liquorice...Although I no longer use Vandoren reeds for the reasons previously cited, the left side of their reeds were (or used to be) consistantly stronger (thicker) than the right side.
This was initially done to compensate for the tendency of the clarinet to roll off the thumb to the left, therefore more pressure was unintentionally put on the left. Therefore the reeds needed to be slightly stronger on the left side.
Personally, I always had better results with Vandorens when the left rail was slightly lowered. However, that could just have been my personal preference. (perhaps my clarinet didn't roll off to the left as much)
If Vandoren has changed their reed profile, which I suppose would have been costly, but quite possible, it is something I was not recently aware of. I haven't used Vandorens in a while - actually since they reprofiled their tip to a flatter configuration which I found to be unacceptable.
Thanks for the update...GBK
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2003-03-18 16:26
Hi GBK,
They've now re-profiled the tip curvature a second time.
Now they are somewhere between the old original, rounded tip and the flatter tip curvature which started about a year or so ago. Whether they work better now because of this second correction anyone's guess.
I personally think that this latest tip curvature of the last several months (if one has the newest stock), is more or less reflective of a natural mouthpiece tip curvature.
Gregory Smith
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-03-18 16:29
Greg...That's actually pretty big news.
I wonder if all the public grumbling in reaction to the first tip change had anything to do with their decision?
Very interesting....Thanks again...GBK
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2003-03-18 16:42
I simply keep a cordier trimmer around if the tips aren't to my liking and readjust the reed to get it to go...Vandoren seems to be going a bit berserk with their reeds. However, i still use them and like them..
David Dow
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2003-03-18 16:45
I suspect that the genesis of the grumbling was from Vandoren France and directly from their stable of French artist/testers. That's generally how they've tended to do these kinds of things.
Gregory Smith
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