 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: swalter
Date: 2003-03-09 19:01
Hi all. I'm a high school student from Pennsylvania who has played clarinet for years now, loving every minute of it. A few years ago, I started seriously listening to big band music, Artie Shaw, Benny Goodman, Glenn Miller, and the like.
So, thus I tried out for Jazz Band, a rather nicely decorated ensemble filled with serious musicians. What I ended up with was the Jazz Lab Band, which is essentially the B grade band. When I asked my director why this happened (I did pretty darn good at my audition) he said he didn't want a clarinet to mar the sound of his band.
After I recovered from the initial anger at this remark, I did my research, and found that in my area, a clarinet isn't considered a jazz instrument--not accepted at County Jazz and considered a sort of black sheep at festivals.
Is this true for all of Pennsylvania and the east coast, and why precisely did this happen? Any hints on how to convince the director that clarinets can be infused into a jazz band without hurting the sound?
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-03-09 19:08
Your director could have taken you on strictly as a clarinetist but the repertoire is somewhat limited in a big swing band. Of course, he could incorporate some Miller arrangements and such but you would sit there idle most of the time. I strongly suggest you consider picking up the sax and then double on clarinet when needed. Since you know the clarinet pretty well already, going to sax is easier than the other way around. That way, your talents can be used to the fullest and you'll have great fun!
Henry
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Author: Henry
Date: 2003-03-09 19:14
As I sent the last post I happened to be listening to my all-time favorite big band: Stan Kenton's. What sound and what arrangements!! But no clarinet in "sight" (or, rather, earshot) at all! If you are not familiar with Kenton, I suggest you give him a try. You would enjoy playing his music, although it ain't easy!
Henry
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-03-09 19:47
I'm afraid that a lot of the now-a-days Jazz-rejection of cls is due to its low-volume [without distortion] sound, as against big-volume saxes, and the loud brass, which was not true in our glory days of the 30-50's [amplification?]. Ah, memories! In our comm. band, playing an "April in Paris" arr. , I tried to put in the bari sax "bottom" sounds with my B C [sight-transposing] and found it insufficient, so next reh. will take a bari also!!! to "honk it out" as desired. Disappointed in OK. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-03-09 22:40
Same thing for Miami- no clarinets allowed in basically any jazz band, because its spot has been taken over by altos and sopranos [saxes] Maybe out of high school it will be different .......
In my school we have a jazz band , and they really want a clarinet to play sometimes ( and I am much better obviously than the saxes who learned clarinet as a second instrument), so they want me to play. Since the county really doesnt allow it- it will never happen unfortunately. I got lucky though, because we have formed a stage band to play in the broadway musicals our performing arts academy puts on, and so I get to play the lead clarinet part along with my friend on flute. They also added an orchestral trombone, and on a few occasions tubas and some strings to regular jazz band.
Right now we are playing Cabaret- which is really fun for me.......
Maybe you will get lucky and they will need you to play in a few pieces from time to time.
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2003-03-09 23:18
I have played in big bands for about 30 years. If you play the old stuff (Miller, Dorsey etc.) there are a few bars for a doubler now and again. The literature otherwise rarely uses it.
About a year ago the prof. for a college band I am playing in pulled out a chart which called for soprano sax. I didn't mave my soprano with me so I pulled out the clarinet and played that. He was floored with the sound and has been pulling out charts which use the clarinet ever since. Even so, you can figure that many newer charts calling for a Bb soprano horn will be calling for a sax.
Join that lab band and when you get to where you knock the professors sox off with your playing then you may get an occasional invite to the big band... maybe. But if you want to play that type of music get a sax... make it an alto as the alto has the most clarinet doubling parts.
TH
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-03-09 23:48
The clarinet is alive and doing very well in Sacramento, CA where is hosted an annual (Memorial Day weekend) Jazz Festival with over 40, 50 (or more?) bands from all over the globe performing all over town to thousands from far and wide, all toe-tapping and cheering. Blues, Big Band and Zydeco outfits round out some of the performances and a very good time of listening, sing-along and dancing pleasure is enjoyed by most, if not all participants...
The only negative I've heard is that volunteer workers last year were asked to pay for the beer they consume, as someone in charge was informed that it's not legal to give it away... awwww :(
While the clarinet may not be King at this point in time on the west coast, it is by no means a forgotten member of the musical community.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2003-03-10 03:01
My impression is that clarinet is more common (in jazz, that is) in small combos than in the larger stage bands. You could always work on improv and standards and get a rhythm combo together to back you up...
Or listen to some of the rather avant garde stuff and see what you can make of it! Don Byron has some really really wild stuff out there!
Katrina
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Author: clarinetdaddy
Date: 2003-03-10 10:36
HEY! If you want to really hear a great jazz band that features a jazz clarinet. Check out Eddie Daniels new CD that he made over here in Germany. "Swing Low Sweet Clarinet"
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Author: allencole
Date: 2003-03-10 11:18
We can fantasize all we want about clarinets in jazz bands, but all of the posters who profess to have some experience in this matter say the same thing--learn to play sax. It is good advice for several reasons.
A couple of specific points for the less experienced -
1 - Clarinet used to be considered a gateway instrument to the sax, and clarinet players who actually embrace the sax tend to double very well. It's a no-lose situation.
2 - Benny Goodman himself was forced to double sax in order to make his living until he had his own band. At one point, he and Artie Shaw occupied the tenor sax seats of the same studio orchestra. He turned down the clarinet seat in the Paul Whiteman orchestra because even in that group it involved a lot of sax doubling.
3 - Eddie Daniels might never have been heard had he not doubled sax. His big break was a clarinet solo that he slipped in to a recording by the Thad Jones-Mel Lewis big band--in which he was a tenor saxophonist. That solo got him on the TDWR poll in Downbeat.
4 - You never know in what direction things will go. An excellent clarinetist named Harry Carney tried out for the 'hot' clarinet seat in the early Duke Ellington band, but came in second to someone else. He took the other seat, which involved bari sax, and became one of the major icons on that instrument.
5 - While there are alternatives available such as combos, dixieland or trad jazz bands, etc., your chances of getting into or forming such a group is generally miniscule compared to your chances of getting into a big band as a saxophonist. The reasons for this would occupy an entire message by themselves.
6 - Consider the bari sax. Lots of traditional big band music with clarinet lead (as opposed to clarinet solos) used no bari. And more modern arrangements that do use bari don't use clarinet. Two altos and two tenors are fairly constant, but clarinet and bari are often a swing seat. Besides, most high schools will lend you a bari to play in one of their ensembles.
Happy Note -- We seem to be making progress on this issue. This subject comes up frequently, usually with one teenager whining about not being taken into a school jazz band followed by a chorus of others crying 'no fair', 'what about Benny Goodman', etc. This high schooler held his breath, did some checking on his own, and presented us with a more thoughtful and less emotional inquiry.
swalter, learn to double, and keep playing your clarinet. You may well have the last laugh.
Allen Cole
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Author: ken
Date: 2003-03-10 12:21
allencole wrote: "3 - Eddie Daniels might never have been heard had he not doubled sax. His big break was a clarinet solo that he slipped in to a recording by the Thad Jones-Mel Lewis big band--in which he was a tenor saxophonist. That solo got him on the TDWR poll in Downbeat."
--spot on; the chart was "Little Pixie" off their 1967 album, Live in Munich.
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Author: William
Date: 2003-03-10 15:19
Update for our Madison area Retro Swing Band--a group mostly made up of retired people who meet every Monday afternoon to either rehearse or play at local nursing homes or retirement centers (for fun, no pay). Recently, Dr Frank Ferriano (retired UW-Whitewater Professor of Jazz Studies and Arranging) "joined"our ensemble and brought along many of his college band arrangements of old standards. At my request (actually a complaint about why he never writes for clarinets), he has done a couple of tunes for us that feature the clarinet instead of the saxes. So, at least for us, the clarinet has been re-born and our audiences seem to enjoy the sounds. More arrangements are "in the works" as well. BTW, these new jazz arrangements fit us very well as all of us in the sax section started--as youngsters--on clarinet and picked up the sax as a "double".
Also, later this week (in another attempt to reintroduce the clarinet into the world of big band jazz) I will be attending a 7 AM rehearsal (yikes!!) of our local McFarland High Schools jazz ensemble to try out an arrangement of the Artie Shaw Concerto for Clarinet. If it works, there might be a concert appearance in my future and a chance to educate some local audience ears to the sounds of jazz clarinet. (got to go practice a couple of cadenzas now--the one with the gliss up to double high C should be "early morning fun")
Other local performances of the Shaw are also pending, but I feel that this one with the kids is special.
Bottom Line(s): all sax players should play clarinet, all clarinet players should play sax--and everyone should at least try the bass clarinet. And remember, there is also flute. (least we all eventually become instinct at the technohands of 'virutal orchestra' and become passive, bored listeners)
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-03-10 19:01
There's frequently a great difference between "How things are" and "How many of us would like things to be."
When Jelly Roll Morton first wrote down some jazz charts, the Clarinet was an essential part of a jazz ensemble. That seemed to prevail up until Sidney Bechet learned that a soprano saxophone could "cut through" on an acoustic recording better than a Clarinet. Since then, the saxophone has dominated the jazz scene (more than the Clarinet) except in New Orleans jazz.
In recent times, jazz has become too static in its concepts, for my money. Recently, an LA Times article complained that a Lalo Schifrin concert (with David Benoit on the Piano) just wasn't jazz. Seems it didn't conform to what the writer has burned into his brain that jazz ought to be. Sad, sad. And Bradley can't play Clarinet in his school's jazz band because "..the county really doesnt allow it." The COUNTY? A county has enough musical understanding to dictate the framework of jazz?
Hey, I have been enjoying jazz for sixty years and still don't understand it. So they don't want to hear a Clarinet? Show some of these people a gut-bucket and they'd *really* recoil. Yet those were once quite common in jazz groups.
Want to kill jazz? Simple. Just make all of it sound the same. The band might as well play minuets.
And that's why I don't like things the way they are. So what. My preferences won't change anything. That said, the several suggestions that you learn to double on sax are right on. It is essential in today's environment. Especially today's commercial environment.
Regards,
Joh
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2003-03-10 20:47
Hi,
I recall having a great bari sax student in my top HS jazz band a few moons ago. She was really the first chair flute player. She was right there when an arrangement called for a picc solo (a Chuck Mangionni tune as I recall) and at other times blew the bell off the bari. But then, she was an extrovert anyhow (which is what the bari needs, not just a weak player filling a seat).
Consider the bari above all (no bari sax jokes please). I learned sax in a few weeks in jr. high and have never looked back.
HRL
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Author: clarinetmama
Date: 2003-03-10 22:33
I would agree with those who recommend you learn the sax. Heck, a monkey can play the sax....seriously, if you can play clarinet the sax will be a breeze. Sad, but true, the clarinet fell out of favor in the jazz bands when the wing era ended. With some exceptions of course. If the person posting wants to her some interesting clarinet playing take a listen to Artie Shaw with the Gramercy 5. Small combo stuff with some lovely clarinet work. Much of this is the music he was playing in the 1950's when he left the music world. Perhaps you could put together your own combo. I couldn't begin to tell you where to find music for that however.
Jean
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Author: ron b
Date: 2003-03-10 22:50
ClarinetMama!!! 
Hi there, Jean. How're you gettin' along? Haven't heard in a while. You making some nice sounds with the (Rossi I think it is) ??? Wing era, swing era, who cares? take another chorus ))
ron b
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