 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Pam H.
Date: 2003-03-09 22:43
I've got a Conn Chu Berry Alto Sax coming soon and I new to the sax. I know that some on here are doublers and triplers, so what's a good mouthpiece to try without breaking the bank? Thanks!
I'm not sure what kind of music I'll ultimately be making with it.
Post Edited (2003-03-09 23:52)
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Author: Clarence
Date: 2003-03-09 22:54
Pam H.
I like the Selmer C* for alto sax. I know plenty of people who also like this one.
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2003-03-09 23:06
The one in the case.
Not a joke, start plying right away. Expect some awful sounds for a while. Once you can play a bit then start looking at mouthpieces. The mouthpiece you use really affects the sound you make. Prices and options vary more than what you see for clarinets... personal opinions even more.
I have a handful of old stock mouthpieces which I started on and wouldn't even put near the horn now. I have several newer ones for jazz... "classical" sounds need other pieces. So you have to know what you want to play, how you want to sound and what plays well for you. Then you need to know chamber size and shape you want, lay size, tip size... on and on. Then when you decide that and narrow it down to the brand size etc. there will be about a dozen other size options.
Want a metal or plastic one? Listen to players you like and consider what they used. A nice Gregory Hollywood like Paul Desmond used can be had cheap on e-Bay from time to time for around $300-400. Like that sound? Then consider a Vandoren V-12 which can be had new for maybe 1/10 the price. I have some Lakey C*4 and C*5's that are nice. I like my Wolfe Tyne 7*, and don't like Otto Links and Dukoff's even though others do. A friend swears by Runyons, even the ones with the little metal reed insert.
You get the Idea... play what it comes with the horn or a cheap facsimile and then consider looking when you know what type of playing you will do.
Oh yes, if it is a Chu off of e-Bay you will almost certainly need an overhaul to make it playable... if the repair guy is a sax player and works at a store, consider asking him to pick one out for you. Don't go too expensive as you will be finding something more suited to you down the line.
I'm curious, why did you pick the Chu? There are lots of lest pricy starter horns around. When you are looking for a keeper horn you will want to play test it before considering a purchase.
IMHO Terry
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Author: Beer Can
Date: 2003-03-09 23:15
With my conn chu selmer c* not very good. I like Meyer, otto link or Barone NY6M. An Otto Link in 5 or 5* will work very well and not be to expensive. My Barone plays well but is more money unless you win it on ebay like I did. Runyon Custom play well in tune and are good price, they have a different shape and are louder than link or meyer. Best bet play everything you can try. The Chu horns play very nice when properly set up ie no leaks and adjusted.
I play mine over yamaha no contest in sound. Enjoy
Dan
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2003-03-09 23:49
Just as point of reference:
If a woodwind player plays more than one horn, she/he is a "doubler".
If that doubler plays 3 horns, the player is not called a "tripler", but rather a "doubler with two doubles (3 doubles, 4 doubles, etc.).
It's easier and clearer that way.
Thanks,
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Pam H.
Date: 2003-03-10 00:19
Terry H. - I picked the Chu for now because that's what my teacher has. I figured it was a place to start and realized that I may need to have some servicing done. I don't feel that I paid too awfully much for it.
I'll see later this week. I should have it by Tuesday or Wednesday.
Thanks for your input (to all).
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-03-10 00:57
I dont play much sax any more, alto,tenor,bari, more into bass clar, some sop. But, I have found, after trying out all mps available, on all 3, I end up with the "stock" mp which may? have come with the sax originally!!, for reasons of intonation/tuning, and ability to play softly down low, less effort also. My Sel C* and D facings are by far best on my M 6 Alto. I have been checking out a King Super 20 bari, my Meyer 6 mp was just too much, the old King 4, far better. You may want to ask opinions from the sax groups on the web. I'd suggest looking at cybersax.com where Bear has/had some Chu Berrys and might have some mp suggestions. The Yahoo mouthpieceworkgroup/ prob. could give some guidance as to conical/cylindrical bores and window/rail/windway design features, [well beyond me] for old saxes. Have fun, its a goodie, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-03-10 01:06
I use Selmer C* for performing, but quite frankly, the cheaper, Yamaha 4C I happen to use for testing after servicing plays very similarly.
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Author: Terry Horlick
Date: 2003-03-10 02:54
Pam,
You say your teacher has a Chu. Ask him/her for a suggestion. I bet you might wangle a loaner mouthpiece until you are ready for a good one.
What's the rush? I still suggest you look around the case and see what it comes with.... might even be usable. In any case, you have a bit of time as overhauls take time. Not pessimism, but just what I have seen in the horns I have gotten off d-Bay (I assume that is where this Chu is from)... every clarinet and sax I have purchased needed major work to just come up to the condition the seller describes... and that is with the sellers who are trying to be honest. If I have a wonderful sax I don't go to e-bay to sell it... in fact if I have a wonderful sax I don't sell at all.... same with mouthpieces.
TH
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Author: allencole
Date: 2003-03-10 11:27
Interesting...I didn't realize that there was a Chu Berry alto.
Meyer mouthpieces are generally the most popular for altoists on the jazz/big band side. Usually 5m or 6m.
If possible, I would wait to shop until you are used to your sax. I am not into vintage instruments myself, but a lot of their devotees like mouthpieces with large chambers.
Allen Cole
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-03-10 12:12
Avoid the 'unobtanium' trap... mouthpieces that are of current manufacture may be replaced, and altered, without fear of tanking wads of cash...
If you are willing to use the mouthpiece that came along with the horn, soak the mouthpiece overnight in a dilute solution of Descaler (CLR brand) in cool water and give it a cleaning with a disposable toothbrush.
For sanitization, a separate bath with a few drops of bleach for 15 minutes followed by a rinse in more cool water.
Alternatively, the Fobes or Hite entry mouthpieces are cheap at $25 USD and will get you started. Don't skimp on decent reeds, same as with your other horns.
I would avoid extremes in mouthpiece design (high baffles, small chambers) until you settle on a stable technique and longterm instrument.
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Author: William
Date: 2003-03-10 15:29
Terry wrote "A nice Gregory Hollywood like Paul Desmond used can be had cheap on e-Bay from time to time for around $300-400."
Wow--do I feel good. I picked up a alto "Hollywood" Gregory (locally from a student of Frank Morgan) for a $100!!! Guess I got a deal. And by the way, it IS a great 'crossover' mpc that sounds good in all playing venues, jazz as well as wind ensemble.
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Author: super20dan
Date: 2003-03-10 23:09
i have to agree w/gordon on this one . the cheap yamaha 4c will work just fine .
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Author: Bill_D
Date: 2003-03-11 13:33
I started on sax about six weeks ago. I first got a used Yamaha YAS-23 alto on approval. It came with a Ridenour mouthpiece. I liked this sax a lot, but was curious about the Conn alto Chu Berry. I liked it more than the Yamaha, and kept it with the Ridenour mouthpiece. The Chu came with a "matched" Bamber mouthpiece which I don't like as well as the Ridenour. As my embouchure develops, I think I'll "grow" into the Bamber.
I've heard good reports about the Yamaha 4C, so it's worth a try.
Tip opening and reed strength, are an obvious factor in choosing. The 4C is listed at .063, the Ridenour at .071, and my Bamber at .065.
Last week I purchased a Yamaha YAS-61, but I prefer the Chu.
I think you'll enjoy the Chu.
Bill
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Author: Dan1937
Date: 2003-03-11 13:50
As a doubler on alto sax and clarinet, I'm still using my 30-year-old Meyer hard rubber 5M, which works fine for legit and jazz playing. I've never tried another sax mouthpiece which gives me as much control as the Meyer, and believe me, I've tried a LOT of mouthpieces! My Meyer is the old New York model, and I understand the newer ones are not the same -- too bad!
The Meyers are not terribly expensive -- in the $70's, I think.
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Author: Tim K
Date: 2003-03-11 21:33
I don't play alto, but do play a Conn 10M tenor, which is the generation after the Chu. The 10M's are picky about mouthpieces. The Hite tenor piece plays well on it, and is a comfortable mouthpiece for a clarinet doubler. I think Hite mouthpieces, whether Premier or Artist, are the best bargains available. They're precisely made and versatile.
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-03-11 23:14
It would help if a few people said what type of C* they were playing. The Selmer stock C* is the S80 model. It is plastic and a very bright honky mouthpiece. The next model up is the S90 which is not a lot better. I prefer the Selmer Soloist, there are other models including metal, which is hard rubber and has a bit more weight. I use a D because I like a more open lay. The C* is a very close mouthpiece in whatever form, many professionals prefer D or E lays. My main criticism of the S80 and S90's is that they lack dynamic flexibility and the tone is not very round. Up until the Soloist I used a Meyer 6, same lay as the D, until it finally gave up the ghost after 20 years. I was unable to find a current Meyer I liked although I still use a close Meyer 6 (USA) as a legit mouthpiece on the tenor and a New York 5 on sop.
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Author: Pam H.
Date: 2003-03-12 00:43
Thanks for all the great ideas. I'll probably start with the one in the case - cleaned as well as possible and buy one of the others soon.
It is fun to learn a new instrument. I don't expect to have any problems other than finding enough practice time, but that's another thread. ![[rotate]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley25.gif)
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Author: squeaker
Date: 2003-03-12 05:23
I would reccomed any meyer or otto link mouthpieces for jazz, and caravans for classical. Really, people can reccomed up the wazoo, but the only way to find out what you like is to test some at the store. Start out wit a C* or something generic like that and then start testing. Personally, I have been playing sax for 2 years ( clarinet for 8 ) and I have gone through more mouthpieces than I care to count. I find that as I mature as a player, I change setups as well. This may be easier for me though because I have found a great shop that trades/buys/sells used mouthpieces. Whenever I have a problem that I know is not me, I go and play on mouthpieces for a while, and I always come out with a sound I like.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-03-12 15:41
A few months ago, I bought a used Vito alto (built by Yanagisawa, it's the same hardware as the low-end Yamaha). I've been playing it some, not a whole lot, and have been using the MP that came in the case. It's a cheap plastic Selmer Goldentone, and somebody sure liked it -- it has teethmarks on it that look like about 10,000 hours worth.
I've been wanting to get a better (for me) MP and have tried a few, but I've almost gagged at the thought of paying two or three times what the saxophone cost just for a good MP. Thanks to all for the good suggestions. By the way, I like to have a Clarinet setup that's tone-flexible (I generally use a #2 or #2½ reed with a Woodwind G7* MP), but I want the alto to be more centered. If anyone has any specific comment on this, it would be appreciated.
Hey, Synonymous, I like your clean-up routine. Where does one obtain the CLR descaler you suggested?
egards,
Joh
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2003-03-13 00:49
JM --
Congratulations on starting up with the sax! You will have lots of fun and it can also improve your clarinet playing.
For a clarinet player moving to sax who is seeking a "centered" tone, the best low priced sax mpce I know of is the Hite Premiere, also endorsed by one of the posters above.
I find that the Hite sax mpces are as good or better than their excellent clarinet mpces. Hite P will run about 35 bucks at your neighborhood music store; maybe a few bucks less from the discounters or on ebay. If your sound wanders with a 2 or 2 1/2 reed like you use on clarinet, try a 3, maybe even a 3 1/2.
As you have by now noticed, a sax case does not have a secure space for the mpce like you have in your clarinet case. The Hite comes in a nice plastic box with a foam insert so you can remove the reed and lig, place the mpce back in its box and let it rattle around in the sax case without fear of damage.
The Hite Premiere has a facing similar to the C* (and in the same ballpark as the Goldentone), but the chamber is IMHO a better design. Or maybe it's just that the Hite quality control is better.
Later on if you feel the need for a brighter louder mpce, you can pick up a nice Runyon Custom or JodyJazz w/o taking out a second mortgage.
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Author: JMcAulay
Date: 2003-03-13 04:39
John, thanks for your comments. Actually, I used to play the sax a lot, but that was many years ago. I haven't had one in a very long time (used to play one of the old Conns with the weird octave vent, on the bottom of the neck).
My playing style on the Clarinet is different from what I want to accomplish with the sax, at least anytime soon, which is why I asked. My Hite Premier for Clarinet is used occasionally, but I had not considered one for the alto sax. Thanks for the suggestion.
Regards,
John
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2003-03-13 17:57
Joh(n) --
I see SynB has not yet gotten back to this thread. I believe the CLR (Calcium/Lime/Rust) brand scale remover he mentions is available at Home Depot (and most likely other home improvement or hardware stores). It is probably also to be found in the laundry products section of some supermarkets. (It's a black plastic bottle with three colored bars running diagonally across the front.)
The Doctor also has a mouthpiece cleaner.
Todd W.
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Author: John Scorgie
Date: 2003-03-14 06:55
JM --
Small world. The first sax I played was also one of those old Conns with an underslung octave key, altho it was not so old at the time (1957)...
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-03-14 11:45
Sorry I didn't post the J Mc....
A word of caution is appropriate with these readily available cleaners...
*DO NOT MIX THEM TOGETHER*
CLR and Bleach will react to evolve dilute chlorine gas... keep them apart.
I use just enough of the descaler in cool water to form a froth on the top of the pan (for you beer drinkers out there - a nice 'pour').
I use an enameled pan, but a glass baking pan will do (it gets really clean in the bargain!) so long as the mouthpiece are completely immersed.
I suppose white vinegar would work, but in less dilute mixtures.
(CLR keeps my dehumidifier heating elements clean, so it really works.)
After a delicate scubbing and THOROUGH cold water rinse - then bleach for 15 minutes (1 cap/1 liter water) for disinfection. Sanimist or any of The Doctor's procucts will also do for these steps.
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Author: Cindy
Date: 2003-03-15 03:00
I started sax last year as a doubler and I detested the mouthpiece in the case. I went out and got a Yamaha 4C to learn on, and I have nothing to hate about it yet. I also got good reeds from the beginning, which may have something to do with it.
So many instruments to play........so little time to play them!
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