 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ALOMARvelous12
Date: 2003-02-22 04:10
Joel's earlier thread reminded me to post this.
I will be getting a step up from my YCL 250 pretty soon, and right now I'm leaning towards the E11. However, the Normandy is also in the picture and I won't be making any decisions until I get to try them both. I'm also gonna try some higher models like the E13 and the Sonata.
I've looked at some old posts and learned that the E11 is German while the E13 is French. Also, I'm pretty sure that the Leblanc's are made in France. Now I'd like to have a German sound more than a French sound, but I think I remember hearing about bad intonation of Bohem system clarinets born in Germany.
I believe the Espirit and the Sonata are Leblanc's highest intermediate clarinets, but they don't seem like popular choices and don't know much about them.
And what are the differences between Normandy, Normandy 4, and Normandy 10's?
I use a B45 with tradition Vandoren 3's.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2003-02-22 05:49
I am a Leblanc person, through and through, but if I were going for a Leblanc intermediate clarinet, I would do the Noblet before I would do the Normandy. It's a little more money, but worth it.
Not that there is anything remarkably wrong with the Normandys, just that the Noblets seems to have better tone, intonation and, like the more expensive Leblanc clarinets, they seem to practically play themselves.
We've had them both (still have a Noblet Bb and an Eb around here that my last son uses for HS concerts) and that's what we think of them. He likes the Woodwinds (Leblanc) K10M and the Vandoren B-46 mouthpieces with the Bb and the Vandoren B-40 with the Eb, with either an Optimum or a BG ligature and a #3 reed.
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Author: Bob
Date: 2003-02-22 12:57
I have 3 E-11 horns and like them. I do find that the barrel and mouthpiece combination that I use with them makes a significant difference in how they "play". I also have 2 R-13 horns and,frankly,still haven't decided which I like better. I also have a couple of Noblets that I regard rather highly and concur with Peter's comments on the LeBlanc line.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-02-22 15:57
ALOMARvelous12 wrote:
>
> Now I'd like to have a German
> sound more than a French sound,
To get a "German sound" (whatever that is; it's not as evident as you might think if you do some research) you might want to explore getting a Hammerschmidt or Wurlitzer or other hand built custom clarinet from a maker in Germany - if you've got the money. An E-11 isn't going to be the ticket.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2003-02-22 23:34
I know Yamaha makes a boehm style clarinet (the french fingering), however it is made with the bore and dimensions of a "german" clarinet. Supposedly this gives you a german sound, but the familiar french fingering. Perhaps you can look into that. You should be able to get to it from yamaha's site.
Alexi
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Author: ALOMARvelous12
Date: 2003-02-22 23:40
Well I guess the Noblet is in the picture now. But there's several Noblets too, are there any significant differences between them?
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Author: Musicbabe512
Date: 2003-02-23 14:44
Hey, I have an E11, and played on it for 3 years, and i really enjoyed it, then I bought my R13, and I love it all the more.The E11 really is a good instrument though...
-Casey
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2003-02-24 14:51
ALOMARvelous12 -
A decent intermediate clarinet is not a lot less than an R-13, and there's no comparison in quality. In my experience, there's more sample-to-sample variation within the R-13 than there is between it and the other, more expensive Buffets. My advice is to get a matched handmade mouthpiece and barrel for around $250 and save up for an R-13.
Just my opinion.
Best regards.
Ken Shaw
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Author: William
Date: 2003-02-24 15:34
Regarding the LeBlanc Sonata, Tom Ridenour made this statement to me: "Knowing what I know about the Opus, Concerto and Sonata clarinets, I would select the Sonata and save a lot of money." He stated further that the Sonata clarinets were made to the same specifications and quality control as the top-line Opus/Concerto clarinet models, but with the Sonata, "you get the supurb LeBlanc key action."
BTW, Tom Ridenour was the chief accoustition and designer of LeBlanc's Opus, Concerto and Sonata line of clarinets. On another occassion, he told me that there was no accoustical difference between the Sonata and the Opus clarinet models. So, bottom line, the Sonata clarinet is, IMHO, a bit more than your typical "intermediate" clarinet.
Disclaimer--i have since retired my set of LeBlanc Concertos (that Tom extensivly "tweeked" for me) and have resumed playing my old vintage Buffet R13s. The E11 is a wonderful student clarinet.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-02-24 15:47
William wrote:
> On
> another occassion, he told me that there was no accoustical
> difference between the Sonata and the Opus clarinet models.
I know that there's no acoustical differences between the Concerto and Opus (Leblanc has stated so in their catalogs) but I hadn't heard that about the Sonata. Are you positive that's what Tom said?
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Author: ALOMARvelous12
Date: 2003-02-24 22:36
Ken, that's actually a good suggestion I have never thought of before. I'll definately consider it.
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-02-26 02:09
Well- the Sonata might have a similar acoustical design, but I would much rather get the Concerto over the Sonata. The Opus is a bit more, and it is typically the darkest out of the Concerto and Opus Artist line, but I like the Concerto's sound better because you can do more with it. I am planning to get the Concerto soon because it is my favorite out of the three actually the Concerto II. The Concerto and Opus has outstanding mechanism that the Sonata just cant match. If you want to pay less for a clarinet like the Opus or Concerto, the Infinite is a closer match than the Sonata.
About German clarinets.....
So they have a darker sound. Big deal. I find that since the Opus is such a great orchestral clarinet, if you are talented enough you can get your sound to match a german's in colour. German clarinets have horrible bulky mechanism to me, and although they have those rollers, they keys are too big to get around in fast pieces. I will never understand why people change from Boehm to play Oehler- but it is definetly not the sane choice.
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-02-26 02:13
By the way....
Peter- where do you live? ( because I noticed you have the same Miami Bellsouth server as me)
Since you are a fellow Leblanc person I would like to ask your opinion on a couple issues.....
I have a couple friends in washington who are test players for Leblanc and if you would like any info, I might be able to help
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Author: Peter
Date: 2003-02-26 04:55
P.S.: That's an old Indian word meaning: "Oh, yuck!"
Peter
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-02-27 00:04
hahaha
I live in West Kendall.....
Do you have an AOL s/n, yahoo s/n or Msn s/n?
I would like to talk to you since you live close and seem to be more experienced than me ( by alot lol)
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Author: Peter
Date: 2003-02-27 01:49
My parents had one of the first houses in Kendall, in about the very early 1960s (?), though we lived in NY. Back then, even the Palmetto Expressway stopped short of Kendall and you had to take U.S. 1 going South from Miami.
It was mostly subdivided, but there was only about one house up every few blocks. One of their houses there was inhabited by my sister and her husband until the middle 80s, when it was sold. It was a few blocks West of Dadeland Mall, off of Kendall Drive.
By the way, when I was a kid, Miami ended at West Flagler and 37th Avenue, you had to drive through swamps and pastures to reach Hialeah and Westchester, before Kendall, was only accessible by way of the Tamiami Trail (SW 8th Street.)
How about those bananas!
I e-mailed you, by the way.
Peter
Peter
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-02-27 03:14
Well- my solo is coming along pretty well
The flutes arent answering exactly on time sometimes though, so we have to fix that.
Other than that it is almost done, and we can just polish it in time for our concert. We might be playing it in Disney as a guest Symphony. Right now we are working on the LOTR soundtrack to play for the Disney concert.
BTW Kevin- How's the clarinet search coming along?
P.S. For everyone that has read this and is confused, I am the Principal Clarinetist for the Greater Miami Youth Symphony, so I was just talking about some pieces we are performing like Shore's LOTR soundtrack pieces and Beethoven's Egmont Overture. We're also thinking of playing A Night on Bald Mountain by Mussorgsky( I kno I probably misspelled the name ) from Fantasia.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2003-02-27 03:30
That's funny. Small world. One of my better friends coaches the Greater Miami Youth Symphony.
Peter
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-02-27 03:36
Cool- he is awesome on flute! ( lol i like his sound because it is full)
He is kinda our Woodwind guy
When we have sectionals he conducts us and stuff
P.S. Maybe you can come and be a guest teacher one day because that would be awesome hehe
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Author: Mark Pinner
Date: 2003-02-27 03:43
If you want a German sound you should be going for a German system clarinet. The E11 is made in the Schreiber factory and they make a whole raft of German and Austrian clarinets from student through to professional models.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2003-02-27 03:44
I've got news for you, he can play excellently well:
Flute, sax, clarinet, trumpet, tuba, french horn, timpani, xylophone, violin.
Very humble. Will never admit he is good at anything, even when you hear him play it and stand in awe.
He toured Europe with a classical music orchestra before ending up here and now.
He is also one of the top orchestral instruments repair people I know.
But don't bring all this up at once, make him a friend and you'll eventually see it for yourself, it actually embarrasses him to be known for his inherent talents.
What a guy!.
Peter
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-02-27 03:50
Lol
I only knew he played violin viola and flute
Wow- he is humble hehe
I was kinda wondering though, because he has been helping me with some awful tremolo fingerings in LOTR and i was wondering how he knew so much about clarinet.....
Now I know he is so good- I kinda feel embarassed cause he sees me at my worst ( and I dont play that well to begin with) but u kno, end of the week rehearsals and I'm sleepy and all cause its on Sundays.
He says I have a very good sound but he wants to work through my nervousness lol
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Author: Peter
Date: 2003-02-27 04:05
He is an excellent person, an excellent friend and an excellent teacher. He has given me so much, I can't begin to recount it.
Some time ago I had a pentatonic, Chinese meditation flute hand made for him. In fact, I helped choose the blank and then sat there and "supervised" the building of it from start to finish. it was also engraved from me to him and the date it was made.
I wanted to give him back some of what he's done for me, rather, to show him some measure of appreciation, and the gift embarassed him so much, I thought he would never speak to me again.
Really a strange character. A true artist in every sense of the word. He doesn't want to be a musician, yet he is so wonderfully talented!!!
I forgot to tell you that he also teaches violin privately, and coaches the Broward County Reality Youth Ensemble, plus works, full-time, for a living.
As I said, don't bring all this up, it will overwhelm him and embarass him. I really mean it! Just befriend him and you'll find out the extent of his talent and generosity.
Peter
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-02-27 04:10
OK
That flute thing was a really nice gift ( seems like you are a good friend too lol)
Hey- Peter, what model clarinet is your favorite?
Like- what model do you play on mostly, and where do you play?
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Author: Peter
Date: 2003-02-27 04:38
Mostly Leblancs: Opus, Symphony. I just sold off three of each. (First time I've ever sold off any instrument I've bought like that.) Really, I play whatever is at hand at any given time.
Varied and sundry vintage makes and models. Often an old Imperial, which I like quite a bit. An old Conn alto clarinet also.
Several saxes: Soprano, alto, C melody, tenor.
Ocassionally a pentatonic flute, sometimes a diatonic minor or major scale flute, sometimes a chromatic one.
I also have a fairly well represented collection of native flutes from all different walks of life. One of my favorites that I tootle every now and then is a minor Kena. I've been trying to have it duplicated in a major scale, but nobody seems to be able to quite get it just right and I keep having them built and end up giving them away.
There are also several guitars (both acoustic and electric,) an electric bass, piano, harmonicas, an organ, a kazoo and a slide whistle around here somewhere.
I once tried to learn to play the acoustic double bass fiddle, but never made it, because my arm was too short. I could never reach the finger board with my left hand after tucking it under my chin.
I haven't played anywhere but home, office and motel rooms in about 35 years. Well, except for one time when I sat in for a friend who was sick while other friends were trying to rehearse some jazzy stuff.
Anyway, Raymond's musical goal is to write a full orchestral symphony and then record it by separate tracks, playing all the instruments himself!
Peter
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-02-27 14:59
Wow- he is really ambitious, I guess it would take someone like him to do that.....
BTW- Why did you sell the Opus and Symphony clarinets?
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Author: Peter
Date: 2003-02-27 17:09
Mainly a matter of economics. I have all these clarinets I almost never use and I needed to raise more money than I wanted to take directly out of my pocket, so I sold off some assets like the clarinets to put the proceeds together with other cash, which, after a while, should provide enough other cash to replace the instruments, should I want to do so.
Actually, I only buy when the price is right. For instance, towards the end of year before last (or some such) I bought a brand new Symphony for $800.00 U.S., I just more than doubled that money without much effort, etc.
I do things like that regularly, although not usually with instruments. Collector's weapons are really close to being the most lucrative, whether antique or contemporary.
You know, perhaps we should continue this by e-mail. We're wandering far and wide here.
Peter
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2003-02-27 18:29
Q: "Why did you sell the Opus and Symphony clarinets?"
A: ". . . to put the proceeds together with other cash, which, after a while, should provide enough other cash to replace the instruments, . . . "
Q: "Peter - where do you live?"
A: "Hialeah."
Hmmmmmmmm . . . ;+))
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Author: Peter
Date: 2003-02-28 06:03
Todd,
I don't think I get it, but you know what they say, "He who laughs last, didn't get the joke!"
Peter
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Author: Bradley
Date: 2003-02-28 15:45
Yeah- the humor in this joke went right over my head as well.......
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Author: Todd W.
Date: 2003-02-28 19:18
Sorry, I didn't think I was being that cryptic.
I remember the Hialeah race track mostly, I think, because of the comic song "It's A Simple Little System" from Bells Are Ringing. (Judy Holliday starred in it on Broadway in 1956 and Faith Prince was in a short-lived revival in 2001.) In the show, about an answering service (pre-answering machine, -pager, and -cell phone) and its various customers (I've only heard the music, but have read synopses of the plot), a bookie ring sets up a music company, Titanic Records, as a front for their real business. They use coded messages (sent through the answering service) to their "customers" -- composers' names substitute for the racetracks and particular races are identified with symphony numbers. In the song, the bookies explain their code, listing the race tracks and their code names. At one point in the song, Comden, Green, and Jule Styne steal a little music from the Hallelujah Chorus as the bookies sing: Who is Handel? Who is Handel? Hialeah! Hialeah!
Todd W.
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Author: Peter
Date: 2003-02-28 21:13
LOL, see, I told you that he who laughs last didn't get the joke.
I don't think we associate Hialeah with horse racing anymore. It's been closed down, except for concerts, fairs and large celebrartions for many years now. Beautiful grounds and building, though. Probably worth millions just as a piece of prime property.
Gambling and drinking were two things I quit the day I turned 21 years old and it became legal for me to do either one. No fun anymore, I won't say to what I directed my attention after that!
Peter
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