 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Amanda Rupp
Date: 2003-02-18 03:40
Well, folks. It's official. I am totally sold on Selmer Clarinets. My professor is a Selmer artist and he's been working on me. I tried his Signature and really liked it. But then today I was able to try a Selmer Recital against a Signature. I liked the Recital better than the Signature. I'm amazed at BOTH of them. Wow. I didn't expect to like the Recital... but I'm sold. Erg, poor college student with no money!!! :o)
What do we all think of Selmers? I know there have been posts in the past, but I've haven't had an opinion until now!!!
Amanda Ruppenthal
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-02-18 03:57
I have a 10G. It's ... OK. A bit on the bright side mostly, but a Spriggs Floating Rail lig seems to have brought the "edge" in it under control. A friend thought I had bought a new clarinet after I had changed to the Spriggs lig a few years back.
I do like the keywork better on my 10G compared to a Buffet, Leblanc, or Yamaha, but I think that's the "baby duck" syndrome ... the 10G's "imprinted" me.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2003-02-18 12:40
I know that recently there have been some converts to some of the newer Selmer models. Todd Levy who is in Milwaukee was previously a NY free lancer and with the Eos Orchestra. Todd (last I knew, was playing the Signature). Riccardo Morales (who seems to switch around) was playing a Signature. In a recent Met broadcast, it looked like he was playing a Recital.
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-02-18 12:45
I second the nod for the 10G, particularly those with an 'X' or 'Y' in the serial number prefix.
The inestimable Anthony Gigliotti was play testing batches the first two years.
Later ones are good, too.
These are MUCH less expensive than current production, but the design goals are considerably different.
I found the Signature a tremendous sounding instrument, but resistant beyond my meager capacity.
That said, it had real composed dynamic control.
I think the Recital model is too much compromise between the Sig and 10G designs... If you're going to sound different, go all out!
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2003-02-18 12:55
I agree about the Signature's resistance. But, I liked the key action and the way the instrument felt in my hand. It's nice and light and very smooth to play. Tone was nice, but couldn't get much volume.
I haven't played the Recital but have heard nice things about it.
I've owned both the Selmer 10S and the 10G and agree with Mark about the 10G. I liked it, but it was a bit too bright for my taste.
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Author: Amanda Rupp
Date: 2003-02-18 13:13
[Paragraph deleted by request from Amanda]
We have a graduate student who came from out east who had studied with Ricardo. He (the grad student) uses signatures right now, but says he *did* try some of the Recitals. I was under the impression Ricardo was using Recitals now, but I'm not sure.
I tried the new Artys and Odysseys as well. Didn't like either. The Artys, though some liked it, was kind of resistant and small sounding for me. The Odyssey just didn't really even feel like a professional horn. It was kind of flat in tone color. Not much depth for me.
Good Clarineting.
A.
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Author: Doug Ramsdell
Date: 2003-02-18 13:59
Had an interesting conversation a while back with one of the NYC repair guys I go to--he does work for the cream of the crop of players here, and said something to the effect that he'd seen a lot of folks trying different horns out, Selmer, Leblanc, what have you, and sooner or later "they all go back to Buffet."
...a comment which I take to mean: there are limited ways to tweak clarinet design any more, and in vast & diverse playing situtations where you want "known-quantity" predictability and effortless blend, the R-13 is the current standard, as much because of its "known-ness" as its design or quality.
(disclaimer: I have no experience playing anything BUT R-13s, so don't take MY word for it. Also, a virtuoso like Morales can play anything he damn pleases, ditto Eddie Daniels; I think my repair guy was talking more about freelancers who need to function in a wide range of playing situations.)
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Author: Hans
Date: 2003-02-18 14:35
Hi Amanda,
I bought my Recital in 1988 and like it very much. It has not cracked or needed much maintenance, it's fun to play, and my wife likes the sounds it makes. Not much else matters. I would buy another one without hesitation.
Disclaimer - I do not own stock in Selmer.
Cheers,
Hans
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Author: Ed
Date: 2003-02-18 14:38
I think that although it is changing, the clarinet world is pretty conservative. In some of the other orchestral winds/brass people play a number of different makes and are open to it. In the clarinet world people question it when you play something different. I realize that Buffet is the standard, but when you hear some of these other players it is very difficult to hear that they are playing something different. What you hear is good playing. I don't think when you hear Riccardo, you think "Oh that is a Selmer sound" or previously "a Leblanc sound".
With all of the different mouthpieces, barrels, reeds, ligatures and even bells out there these days there is lots of variation in the set up. Add to that all of the customization that people do with bores and undercutting tone holes, and it is hard even to say that they are all Buffets. Often two set ups have the same name but the end result can be quite different. As always, it has been discussed here that the individual and what they are trying to get makes much difference. For example, the results that Harold Wright and Frank Cohen get are different tonally.
It is likely that a good horn will play in tune, no matter what the name and that a good player will adjust to blend. I have heard players with the same make of clarinet who can't blend at all and vise versa.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2003-02-18 14:58
"...It is likely that a good horn will play in tune..."
Well..........not always.
But, good players learn how to play in tune...GBK
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Author: Ed
Date: 2003-02-18 15:51
GBK- thanks for clarifying. I guess what I should have said is that a good horn will be in the ballpark or within reason. (if not, it is not a good horn)
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Author: jez
Date: 2003-02-18 16:25
The Recital E flat is my favourite for sound and comfort.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-02-18 16:56
Don't overdo the praise for Selmer. Their manufacture standards and quality control have a fair bit to be desired, as judged from the ones I see direct from the factory.
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Author: MC
Date: 2003-02-18 17:07
I've owned several Selmers over the years: a 9, two different 9* clarinets, a 10G, a set of series 10's, and a set of Signatures. Over the past few years, I sold all of them except the Signatures (which I use as my primary instruments) and the series 10 Bb (which was demoted to backup/outdoor concert status when I bought the Signatures). I would love to have kept them all, but I believe that good instruments should be played, not stored in a closet. Besides, my husband told me that if I needed 8 clarinets, then surely he should have at least four or five table saws. I agreed to thin out the collection. :-)
I love the Signatures. I played just about every brand on display at ClarinetFest several years ago, and kept finding myself back at the Selmer booth. Can't really tell you why -- all of the clarients were nice, and I probably would have been happy with any number of different instruments. Guess the Selmers just "felt" right.
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Author: Amanda Rupp
Date: 2003-02-18 17:21
If you don't mind my asking, Gordon, how so? What have you found directly from the factory???? (I'm very curious and looking into everything right now).
Thanks.
A.
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Author: Ken
Date: 2003-02-18 19:02
MC wrote: "then surely he should have at least four or five table saws."
--clarinets and table saws; somehow I detect a connection here; do I hear an ultimatum? <;D
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Author: jez
Date: 2003-02-18 19:40
Does anyone know anything about an odd Selmer, I think it was called 'Marchi' system or similar, which was a full Boehm with an extra speaker mechanism opening a hole in the barrel making existing altissimo notes easier and possibly enabling even higher ones (terrible thought)
Do they still make it? Has anyone got one? Why didn't it catch on?
jez
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Author: Benni
Date: 2003-02-18 19:57
I'm quite happy with my Selmer Series 9, I tried an older Signet that surprised me in a good way, and I haven't tried the Signature (yet), but a friend of mine (who's main horn is a Leblanc Concerto) just tried one and said it was great! :-)
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Author: mark m
Date: 2003-02-18 19:57
I have four Selmers. One A "K" series circa ~1927, two series 10 Bb and one series 10 A. I like em all. The K series plays great and I want to get it rebuilt. The series 10s are circa late sixties and I like them over the Buffets/Leblancs that I've tried. I also like them over the series 10G, 10S. Ed also brings up good points. There are a lot of variables when setting up a clarinet.
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2003-02-19 00:01
Amanda,
I have not worked on the new Selmer clarinets. Hardly anyone plays them in this area. This is Buffet country, so to speak. However the Selmer saxes of late have a lot of slop in the keys, solder joints amuck, springs too heavy, pads not seating, and adjustment problems. They are put together rather shoddily in my opinion. The local Selmer rep doesn't seem to mind. His philosophy is that they sell all they make so "what's the problem?". The answer is more sax players are turning to Yanagasawa and Yamaha.
I'll let Gordon speak of the clarinets.
jbutler
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Author: Ken
Date: 2003-02-19 03:39
jbutler wrote: "I have not worked on the new Selmer clarinets."
--interesting John, you have an old Selmer Balance Tone (and Conn) you've rebuilt for sale on your website, why cut down Selmer? How about bitching about Selmer saxophones elsewhere ... this is a clarinet website and you know better.
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Author: spf
Date: 2003-02-19 03:54
Ken,
I for one appreciated what John said. I don't think he was deceitful at all (if that is what you are implying). Selmer is a BIG name in sax's and if his sax observations match Gordon's clarinet observations, then I think it deserves to be included here. The last time I looked, this was not a clarinet ONLY board.
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Author: Clarence
Date: 2003-02-19 04:02
Some of us play clarinet and sax. The sax comments don't bother me.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2003-02-19 12:01
spf wrote:
>
> last time I looked, this was not a clarinet ONLY
> board.
Ah, technically it's supposed to be, but I let things wander from time to time ...
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2003-02-19 12:10
Amanda RuppDate wrote:
"...If you don't mind my asking, Gordon, how so? What have you found directly from the factory????"
It would actually be difficult to find an area of the instrument that has NOT been botched in some instrument I have seen in the last few years.
Incorrect register vent, key cup/pad of insufficient diameter to cover tone hole reliably, squishy-elt pads, binding pivots, parts of keys that bind against another part, chipped tenons, multiple splits in a tenon, horrible undulating tenon groove, swollen hence jamming tenons, D#/G# left hand lever slipping out from under key, ring keys jamming on tone holes, thumb vent loose in timber which was bored crooked, sub-standard synthetic tenon corks, poorly seated pads....
Generally scruffy, like the saxophones. And uncooperative about dealing with these problems. The attitude jbutler mentions seems to come from the company itself.
And if I order parts I am likely to get no response - ever!, or incorrect parts, or 20 sets of 38 when I ordered 20 ONLY screws, etc.
It is not a pretty picture. Are Buffet any better?
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Author: larryb
Date: 2003-02-19 19:43
don't worry about buffets - they're going the way of B&H clarinets (remember those?)
as for Selmer quality - my Signature (Bb) is very well put together (I had the extra left pinky Eb key/lever removed, which caused some play in the keys that was easily fixed by a competent repairman); my Recital (A) does have a few idiosyncracies (aka scruffy), but there relatively minor, and it still performs better than the Buffet A clarinets that I've tried. On the other hand, the Recital is a charmingly odd ball instrument (with its small bore), so it's probably not fair to compare it to other larger bore instruments - you either like it or don't.
vive la difference
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Author: jbutler
Date: 2003-02-20 00:47
Ken,
I do have Selmer clarinets on the web site. The BT was my main clarinet for a couple of years. The Conn is a woderful clarinet and my back up clarinet is a Selmer Centered Tone. I thought the discussion was about NEW Selmer models such as the Signature and Recital. The BT was made in 1934! Hardly a new instrument by any stretch of the imagination.
Now my reference to the Selmer saxophone is from personal experience with repairing them. I posted the information with the idea in mind that Gordon may have found similar or the same problems with the clarinets. Similar problems may indicate the need for better quality control overall.
If you find that "bitching", so be it. As far as me "knowing better", I think that is <b>your opinion</b> and the only two people in this world that I give a rat's a** about their opinion when it comes to my personal business are my mother's and my wife's.
jbutler
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Author: dennis
Date: 2003-02-20 03:20
ken, my dear ken
[deleted.
dennis, my dear dennis
Ad hominem remarks such as the one I deleted are puerile and unappreciated. You may disagree with the idea, but attacking the person is unwarranted. Mark C.]
If you [deleted] interpret John's comment as 'bitching' or slamming Selmer, then perhaps you need to partake in the repair business for numerous years and formulate your own opinions.
Without knowing why an individual has an instrument(s) for sale, you seemingly jump to conclusions.
Although I'm a Clarinetist by past trade and present hobby, I do own a sax.
Selmer saxes.......one sax makes not an opinion However, my Yamaha 875 sop sax is borrowed for recordings and an annual trip to the Telluride Jazz Festival for the simple reason it has better keywork and sound that the Recording Artist's own fairly new Selmer.
Perhaps if you read this Board more frequently, you'd know that there are postings relative to saxaphones. They are there because it's Mark's call to either approve or remove the post/reply.
In fact, a frequent posting reference is the Austrailian Saxaphone Society...........WHEREIN WRITTEN INTERVIEWS ARE POSTED FROM PAST AND PRESENT WORLD CLASS CLARINETISTS.
Please don't take this personally so don't bother responding; I'm not looking for a dialogue.
regards
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Author: Synonymous Botch
Date: 2003-02-20 12:28
Wow.
[Very rude sexist comment deleted - watch it, SB. Mark C.]
Stop picking on JB, he's one of the few good-un's left here.
At least he doesn't pound shoes on the table to make a point.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2003-02-20 14:48
I applaude and endorse what J B and Gordon say, since their comments are obviously based on considerable experience AND are in response to "leading" questions. Based on my lesser experience, among my frequently-played horns, Selmers are followed by LeBlancs, "population-wise"! Don
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